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Hubcentric wheel spacers
Phil_1471 - 21/6/16 at 07:09 AM

Hi, anybody know where I can get a 63.4 hubcentric 4x108 10mm spacer?
Or
I have a pair of 15mm ones.... Anyone near Nottingham/Mansfield that wants to machine them down for me?

Cheers
Phil

mcerd1 - 21/6/16 at 07:19 AM

I would have thought that 10mm was getting a bit thin to be hub centric...

On my hubs they only stick out 11mm past the disc, so the centre bit of a 10mm hub centric spacer would need to -1mm thick



If you measure up your hub / wheel/disc I can do you a drawing to see what your options are....

[Edited on 21/6/2016 by mcerd1]

Phil_1471 - 21/6/16 at 11:49 AM

Hmmm, you may have a point, I will triple check and let you know
Phil

nick205 - 21/6/16 at 03:46 PM

Assuming the 63.4 is Ø in mm of the centre bore (?) I guess you're looking to space some Ford fit wheels?

Fro memory you can fit Peugeot wheels to Ford hubs, but they have different Ø centre bores.

ETA...As I thought the 205 GTI Alloys have a centre bore Ø of 65mm.

[Edited on 21/6/16 by nick205]

Phil_1471 - 21/6/16 at 03:51 PM

Yes you can fit pug wheels as they are both 4x108.
I have the rims I want fitted using 15mm spacers, however I want to make the front narrower.

loggyboy - 21/6/16 at 04:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Phil_1471
Yes you can fit pug wheels as they are both 4x108.
I have the rims I want fitted using 15mm spacers, however I want to make the front narrower.


You could look out for a 2nd set (or pair) of rims with a higher offset.

Slimy38 - 21/6/16 at 05:11 PM

If the centre bore of the alloys is greater than the hub, can't they be used as is?

mcerd1 - 21/6/16 at 06:39 PM

^^^ with spacer rings yes

Modern wheels need a good fit on the centre too keep them centred

mark chandler - 21/6/16 at 07:11 PM

Hub centric, 20mm thin is pushing it, it's a non-starter I am afraid.

Slimy38 - 21/6/16 at 07:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
^^^ with spacer rings yes

Modern wheels need a good fit on the centre too keep them centred


I bet with about five minutes of Googling you'll find 'agrees' and 'disagrees' on that!

The last comment I saw on the subject was that the tightness of the bolts puts sufficient friction between hub and wheel to keep things solid. And conical bolts help centre the wheel in the first place.

I have a feeling that was off an MX5 forum...

(by the way, conical bolts may be completely the wrong term. What I mean is that the underneath of the shoulder is at an angle rather than right angles)

[Edited on 21/6/16 by Slimy38]

mcerd1 - 21/6/16 at 08:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
^^^ with spacer rings yes

Modern wheels need a good fit on the centre too keep them centred


I bet with about five minutes of Googling you'll find 'agrees' and 'disagrees' on that!

The last comment I saw on the subject was that the tightness of the bolts puts sufficient friction between hub and wheel to keep things solid. And conical bolts help centre the wheel in the first place.

I have a feeling that was off an MX5 forum...

(by the way, conical bolts may be completely the wrong term. What I mean is that the underneath of the shoulder is at an angle rather than right angles)

I'm sure plenty of folk will argue the case, but the fact is the OE wheels use them, if they didn't make any difference then they wouldn't bother making them (it would be far easier to just make them all with a big hole in the middle and not have to bother about tolerances for a good fit)
the same goes for the aftermarket wheels - why would they bother with the spacer rings for different makes if they weren't important ?

yes it should be the friction generated by the clamping force on the bolts/nuts that holds the weight, but how do you ensure its centred as you tighten them...

and yes some really old stuff did rely on nothing but the tapered bolts/nuts to pull the wheel into the centre (mostly 1970's and older I believe)
but the fact is most modern stuff (i.e the last 3 or 4 decades) uses the spigot in the centre, even thought the also tend to still have tapered nuts / bolts too.


the trouble comes when you use the wrong method for the design of your hub
I remember a lot of the folk use pug wheels on escorts/fiesta's etc without spacer rings, and they couldn't work out why the wheels never seemed to be balance right on the cars - turned out the wheels were fine, but the just didn't fit the hubs..... (pug use 4x108 with a 65.1mm centre bore rather than fords 63.4mm bore)
of course some people got away with it and would swear blind that it couldn't be the cause of the problem for anyone else.....



[Edited on 21/6/2016 by mcerd1]

Phil_1471 - 21/6/16 at 09:32 PM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391433826369

I'm not paying that for them...

and wheels should fit on hubs, with spigots, correct fit etc

nick205 - 22/6/16 at 07:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
If the centre bore of the alloys is greater than the hub, can't they be used as is?



My understanding is that the centre bore needs to be a good fit on the hub to centre the rim. I also think the Pug 205 alloys use flat wheel bolts rather than coned so again these don't centre the wheels on the hubs and the rims "could" move off centre and cause issues. Not certain, but I think there may be adapters (rings) to overcome this issue between centre bore sizes.

coyoteboy - 22/6/16 at 12:09 PM

Look for spigot ring adapters to get the proper centreing of the alloy on the hub centre, and get metal ones rather than plastic (mainly because plastic get cracked and damaged easily).

Don't rely on conical bolts. Sure the clamp loads should be pretty high and in most cases safe, but in an impact or a heavy side load (or combined) you may find it decreases and bending-loads the bolts. These cars are not used for pootling to the shops on a summers day.

And yes, pug alloys all use flat head bolts, at least last time I checked. I guess this is why the OP was asking for hubcentric.

[Edited on 22/6/16 by coyoteboy]

Phil_1471 - 22/6/16 at 01:57 PM

^^^ what he said!

mcerd1 - 22/6/16 at 02:50 PM

Of course if your wheels have bigger centre bore than your hubs then it gives you scope to make some nice custom 10mm thick hubcentric spacers

Phil_1471 - 22/6/16 at 03:23 PM

Exactly ;-) they are a 73.1 bore on wheels.

so glad we are back on topic....

coyoteboy - 22/6/16 at 04:23 PM

I wonder if searching for hubcentric gives you dodgy results because most people call bolt-on spacers hubcentric and spigot mounting non-bolt-on spacers are just spacers?

I'd be shocked if H&R didn't have something to suit.
https://www.performancealloys.com/wheel-spacers-shims.aspx

Phil_1471 - 22/6/16 at 04:39 PM

They do, see my 4th post,

Slimy38 - 22/6/16 at 06:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Phil_1471
Exactly ;-) they are a 73.1 bore on wheels.

so glad we are back on topic....


Apologies for drifting it off topic, but my question still stands. Do you actually need spacers or would the wheels just fit on, given that your wheels are 73.1 and your hubs are 63.4? Albeit now I understand that you need spigot rings.

What I'm trying to say is, are you looking to push the wheels out of the arches (hence the spacer) or just to get them to fit?

phelpsa - 22/6/16 at 06:53 PM

The reason for the centre spigot in most applications is to support the weight of the car should the clamping load be lost. Some studs are designed to take shear loads but most studs and all bolts are not.

mcerd1 - 22/6/16 at 08:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
What I'm trying to say is, are you looking to push the wheels out of the arches (hence the spacer) or just to get them to fit?


based on his previous posts I think the answer to that is both

coyoteboy - 22/6/16 at 10:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Phil_1471
They do, see my 4th post,


Oh I see, you're being cheapy with your four contact patches Your call!

mcerd1 - 23/6/16 at 01:26 PM

so my understanding is that something like this would be ideal for you:



I've based that on a sierra / Granada rear hub sizes (as that's what I had with my ones) which the spigot on the hub sticks out by 11mm once the disc on.

but if your stuck out a bit more than that (say 15mm+) then you might not need a hub centric spacer like that at all, a plain 10mm spacer and an separate ring to put inside the wheel may be fine.


it all depends on the size of your hub's spigot....