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Winter trackday tyres
cliftyhanger - 12/12/16 at 07:45 AM

Did a trackday at brands last Monday. It was pretty cold, ice on the car at 8am, but no frost on the track thankfully.
However, the track was damp and very slippery. My wife drove the first session, and was first behind the course car. Once the course car went in, we kept going, however she spun at Graham Hill despite being careful on the throttle. She did it again a couple of hours later, and i lost count of how many cars spun at that spot, a few with instructors on board!
Clearways was a nightmare, and I had to be very conservative with the old right foot.

We were in the spitfire (last jolly with the 1800 zetec, now out and has a buyer, ST170 being built up) but there were a load of other Triumphs there, many racers. And the other sessions were the MG bunch.

I have a set of Falken ZE914's on the car, which have been good on dry tacks and nice and progressive when they start to slide. However, in the cold, greasy conditions they seemed hopeless.

So my question, are there any tyres that are actually good for cold, damp (as opposed to wet) trackdays? The racers seemed to be better, and they seemed to be on semislick stuff, Yokos mainly, but they also seemed VERY experienced, braver than us and very deep pockets in terms of car prep. (one mentioned 20k on his TR4 engine!)

[Edited on 12/12/16 by cliftyhanger]

jeffw - 12/12/16 at 08:53 AM

Not sure there are many tyres made which will stop a Spitfire spinning on cold, damp roads. Joking aside it is about getting temperature into the tyres as most trackday focus tyres require a circuit temp of 8+ deg C. You would probable find that winter tyres would have been a lot better as they are designed to work in low temps.

From Blackcircles site

In temperatures below 7°C the compound and rubber in a summer tyre begins to harden. Winter tyres, and all season tyres, are constructed with a different type of rubber compound - containing a higher percentage of silica and natural rubber. This allows winter tyres to remain flexible and perform better in lower temperatures.

[Edited on 12/12/16 by jeffw]

loggyboy - 12/12/16 at 09:48 AM

Im doing brands on Saturday, and Ive just picked up some soft compound Avon ZZRs for the clio so hoping they will be ok if its not wet (forecast is dry at mo).
I did Brands in Jan, it was very cold (about 7-8degrees?) but dry and I was really struggling to get temps in to my 888s and the car was several seconds a lap slower than my previous visit to brands in warmer (but still far from warm) conditions, id say about 10-12degrees. So there really is a drop off as Jeff mentioned. However I suspect a winter road tyre would quickly get too warm once driven in anger for a few laps. Im hoping the soft compound track orientated tyres will be happy medium.

jeffw - 12/12/16 at 10:50 AM

When you say soft ZZRs do you mean sprint compound 13" tyres or the normal Medium compound?

loggyboy - 12/12/16 at 11:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
When you say soft ZZRs do you mean sprint compound 13" tyres or the normal Medium compound?


They are 15s, and I believe they are the softest as they came from someone who used them for sprinting, TBH ive not checked the markings, but they are being fitted as we speak so will check in a bit.

jeffw - 12/12/16 at 05:01 PM

OK, so Mediums then. Pretty much the same as GG compound R888s.

bi22le - 12/12/16 at 07:38 PM

I have also done a day at brands, woke up to ice. I started with R888 which were not great, I then switched to ZE912 which were terrible. I went back to R888 and softened up the shocks as well as drop the pressures a smidge.

A combination of changing away from old tyres (ze912) and setting the car up for wet conditions made a difference. It was still not very grippy but defo not like ice skating

loggyboy - 12/12/16 at 07:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
OK, so Mediums then. Pretty much the same as GG compound R888s.

Sold to me as super softs, but as you say, they only seem to sell 1 compound!

jeffw - 12/12/16 at 08:38 PM

There are two compounds, A24 Soft and the Mediums. The A24 version is only in two, 13", sizes for sprinting. All the other sizes are medium.

cliftyhanger - 12/12/16 at 08:39 PM

Jeff, the spitfire has modded rear suspension (GT6 rotoflex uprights/lower wishbones, hybrid subaru/Rover100/mgf driveshafts and a subaru lsd, but retains the transverse leaf spring) so is much better than a std spit, not as good as a live axle or indeed more modern IRS.

Anyway, thankyou for the insights/suggestions. I will ponder all this, but in reality have 11 months!

cliftyhanger - 13/12/16 at 07:32 AM

Had a thought about the new all-season tyres.
The Michelin cross climates seem to do well in a test, but I think some more feedback required before I fork out my hard earned folded.

luke2152 - 13/12/16 at 04:50 PM

Don't go winter tyres! I lived in Germany a couple of years and had to fit them for a few months each year. The whole thing about them working in cold temps seemed to be marketing hype. They are great on snow and nothing else. Terrible in the rain and that's what we see most of in the winter.

loggyboy - 18/12/16 at 01:45 PM

Can definitely recommend the ZZRs - for tin tops at least, but suspect once moving under a lighter car, temps would rise and work as well.
I was clearly running rings around lots of different cars struggling under breaking and cornering at Brands at weekend. Will upload a report and vids later to the trackday section.