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Front wheel nuts undoing when driving
steve m - 4/6/19 at 09:15 PM

Hi Guys

Ive got a problem with my front wheel nuts undoing themselves when im driving the rears, that are EXACTLY the same type,
stud length, wheels, and nuts do not change

My car handles well, has no vibration, nor any apparent steering problems, yet has developed over the last year, more so this year! a loosening of the wheel nuts, but only on the front

My car is garaged, and locked in, also ive put a dab of of red nail varnish on the nuts, so I know theve not been tampered with,

yet still need a couple of turns to tighten them up, even after a shortish (like me) drive

??????????????????????

steve

Mr Whippy - 4/6/19 at 10:15 PM

Have you painted the face of the disk? As that can lead to them loosening as the paint softens with the heat, it should all be bare metal. You could also try sanding the bolt face and the wheel seat incase they are contaminated. Another thing that causes this is wheel powder coat on the seat for the bolt, again this softens so the bolts loose.

rusty nuts - 5/6/19 at 06:14 AM

How do you tighten them? Do you use a torque wrench set to the correct setting? Are the wheels damaged around the stud holes or the center? Have the studs stretched due to over tightening? Same for the nuts? Can you change the wheels front to rear to check if the problem moves?

Charlie C - 5/6/19 at 07:23 AM

Are the studs fully pressed in? if they are not it might be that when you tighten them and then drive the car the forces on the wheel and the bumps help pull the studs further through.

russbost - 5/6/19 at 09:28 AM

If this is on alloys there is every chance you have the wrong type of nuts, some seat with a washer & some on a taper, if you should have the washer type & instead have tapers the nuts will gradually "eat" into the alloy - same thing can happen with the wrong angle taper, but less likely.

Doesn't explain why you'd only have it on the front, tho' there is far more "side force" exerted on the steering wheels, are you absolutely certain front & rear nuts are identical?

coyoteboy - 5/6/19 at 11:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
If this is on alloys there is every chance you have the wrong type of nuts, some seat with a washer & some on a taper, if you should have the washer type & instead have tapers the nuts will gradually "eat" into the alloy - same thing can happen with the wrong angle taper, but less likely.

Doesn't explain why you'd only have it on the front, tho' there is far more "side force" exerted on the steering wheels, are you absolutely certain front & rear nuts are identical?


This is my first assumption. There's different taper angles, some flat face, some with counterbore. I suspect the wrong nuts, and it is always the fronts that see it first.

steve m - 5/6/19 at 04:44 PM

Tomorrow I will investigate more, however,

All four wheels are the same, same size same ets, same tyres,
All the studs are in and tight, infact never been out in 21 years,
All the wheel nuts that came with the wheels and all 16 are the same have been on the car for 4 years

The disk to wheel plate is bare clean metal maybe copper slipped, but not painted!

Now a thought has occurred to me, that I had a couple of tight wheel nuts when I last took the wheels off, and ive copper silpped the studs, not the nuts, them, maybe a bit too much ? and maybe, some has gone onto the mating between nut and wheel, and allowing the nuts to slip on the wheel ?

again, tomorrow I will investigate

steve

Mr Whippy - 5/6/19 at 11:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
The disk to wheel plate is bare clean metal maybe copper slipped, but not painted


Don't do this.The wheel is held on by the friction between the disk surface and the back of the wheel, not by the bolts. The bolts are only there to provide a clamping force to increase the friction between the two. By adding grease you are then removing this vital friction and putting all the load (side load and vibration) onto the bolts which will then shake loose. You should not use grease on the threads either as that will only encourage them to shake loose. There is no requirement to use grease anywhere here if you take the nuts off every year or so and clean them and the threads.

If a wheel binds on, simply slacken the bolts a few turns and lower the car, then rock it sideways and the wheel will always pop loose.

nick205 - 6/6/19 at 08:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
If this is on alloys there is every chance you have the wrong type of nuts, some seat with a washer & some on a taper, if you should have the washer type & instead have tapers the nuts will gradually "eat" into the alloy - same thing can happen with the wrong angle taper, but less likely.

Doesn't explain why you'd only have it on the front, tho' there is far more "side force" exerted on the steering wheels, are you absolutely certain front & rear nuts are identical?


This is my first assumption. There's different taper angles, some flat face, some with counterbore. I suspect the wrong nuts, and it is always the fronts that see it first.



This is my line of thought as well. Peugeot 205 GTI alloy wheels take specific wheel bolts if you use the wrong bolts you'll not get them done up tight and damage the alloy wheels. The front (steering) wheels of a car must come under higher side loads than the rear wheels as well, which may account for seeing this happen on the front and not the rear. All that said I'd also have thought something must have changed in the way the wheels and nuts/bolts are fitted to bring on this behavior.