M16, princess brakes, I'm in a muddle
Monkeybasher - 25/4/06 at 12:07 PM
Hi,
Can somebody help me with the basics. I have M16 calipers (two pots) fitted to my cortina hubs. I have just bought princess 4 pots without much
research.
Can I use my old discs and pads, or is my only option to go 2.8i vented capri discs with new pads and spacer kit?
Are capri discs a biggar diameter than the ones used with the M16's?
Are the princess pads biggar than the M16's?
Which bleed nipple and feed pipes get linked together on the princess caliper rather than using a T piece?
Will I need to use a different master cylinder?
Sorry for all the questions
Any help appreciated
thanks
Steve
britishtrident - 25/4/06 at 12:22 PM
No advantage in using Princess calipers just a lot of hassel and even more weight -- the Cortina/Escort/Granada type are already over the top for
such a light car.
If you want to fit vented discs you can spacer the Cortina calipers and fit Capri 2.8i discs. But a bigger improvement is just fitting a decent
quailty performance brake pad.
Surrey Dave - 25/4/06 at 12:47 PM
Slight Hijack!!
Mintex1144???, if you fitted these pads would it not be pukka to use the same material in the rear shoes, are they available????
[Edited on 25/4/06 by Surrey Dave]
Monkeybasher - 25/4/06 at 06:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
No advantage in using Princess calipers just a lot of hassel and even more weight -- the Cortina/Escort/Granada type are already over the top for
such a light car.
If you want to fit vented discs you can spacer the Cortina calipers and fit Capri 2.8i discs. But a bigger improvement is just fitting a decent
quailty performance brake pad.
Thanks for the reply,
The only reason I decided to buy them at the last minute was because after 3-4 laps of knockhill my m16s were going off. I bought some mintex pads
for the front and that did help, but the brakes still went off. The brake discs are going blue so maybe they are overheating and vented discs are the
way forward.
I find the M16s fine for normal road use with normal tyres but stick on slicks and they struggle after a bit.
Maybe all I need to do is buy vented discs for the m16s or try another type of pad.
Any more thoughts appreciated
Cheers
Steve
britishtrident - 25/4/06 at 06:50 PM
Shouldn't go off in 4 laps , years back used to do a 10 lap Production car races round Knockhill in an Elan Plus2S without problems -- and it
was a lot heavier than a Locost but has basically the same Girling front brakes as the Cortina. In those days the pad of choice was the Ferrodo DS11
but the M144 was the new kid on the block and earning a very good reputation.
Princess calipers won't help the discs blueing if anything it will make worse, vented discs are a better solution.
If the brakes discs are turning blue would suspect they are starting to bind as the warm up -- could be a few things even something as simple as
the pedal sticking or too much fluid in the resevoir.
britishtrident - 25/4/06 at 07:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Slight Hijack!!
Mintex1144???, if you fitted these pads would it not be pukka to use the same material in the rear shoes, are they available????
[Edited on 25/4/06 by Surrey Dave]
Pads and shoes need very different friction materials
The magic shoe material used to be Ferrodo VG95 ---- can't see it still being available in these asbestos free days. Mintex no longer supply a
high perforamnce brake shoe material. The only manfacturer around seems to be Carbotech
Monkeybasher - 25/4/06 at 07:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Shouldn't go off in 4 laps , years back used to do a 10 lap Production car races round Knockhill in an Elan Plus2S without problems -- and it
was a lot heavier than a Locost but has basically the same Girling front brakes as the Cortina. In those days the pad of choice was the Ferrodo DS11
but the M144 was the new kid on the block and earning a very good reputation.
Princess calipers won't help the discs blueing if anything it will make worse, vented discs are a better solution.
If the brakes discs are turning blue would suspect they are starting to bind as the warm up -- could be a few things even something as simple as
the pedal sticking or too much fluid in the resevoir.
Ah interesting, I must admit I thought it was strange that I seemed to be the about only one with the problem. I suppose its possible the brakes are
binding fractionally. I will investigate this further.
I beginning to get the feeling I wasted my money on princess calipers.
I think I will weigh them and see how much more they weigh than the m16s. If
they wiegh loads more then they could be on ebay soon.
Steve
NS Dev - 25/4/06 at 09:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Slight Hijack!!
Mintex1144???, if you fitted these pads would it not be pukka to use the same material in the rear shoes, are they available????
[Edited on 25/4/06 by Surrey Dave]
This is not from experience but I doubt it would be worthwhile, on tarmac the rears don't really do enough to get hot enough to need uprated
materials........in my experience
britishtrident - 26/4/06 at 07:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
This is not from experience but I doubt it would be worthwhile, on tarmac the rears don't really do enough to get hot enough to need uprated
materials........in my experience
yes problem is getting the fronts and rears to warm up at the same rate.
A lot depends on the set up --- drums can never really be a perfect match for discs. In any case start pushing drums to extreme and they disort
under pressure. Drums are fine for road use but for the track disc all round has got to be the choice.
Fit Sierra or Escort 3 solid discs on the rear and the rear brakes will run a lot cooler than solid Cortina or Sierra on the front so to match the
rear brake temperatures vented discs are needed on the front.
phelpsa - 26/4/06 at 08:13 PM
I weighed my princess calipers and they weigh very very little more than the cortina ones. I agree that in a Locost they aren't necessary unless
you are doing a lot of hard track use for fairly long periods.
Adam
Stu16v - 26/4/06 at 08:35 PM
quote:
Fit Sierra or Escort 3 solid discs on the rear and the rear brakes will run a lot cooler than solid Cortina or Sierra on the front so to match the
rear brake temperatures vented discs are needed on the front.
To a point. The fronts (tend to) get a nice fresh cooling flow of air to them, whilst the rears get treated to preheated air from the engine! IME my
rear discs will 'blue' with the front discs under extreme (trackday) use. Incidently, I have always fitted the same type pad front and rear.
Another reason for doing so is that different compounds will react differently to getting wet/drying out. At certain points in the drying process the
coefficient of friction will actually increase, and with certain (usually cheaper) compounds markedly so too. Back brakes snatching on is just what
you dont want on a wet day...