I've never driven it so can't comment personally.
Adam
This looks interesting. --> link!
If it works you've got no camber change like DeDion with lower unsprung weight and better performance over the bumps like IRS.
If it doesn't, or if it makes bugger all difference, then it's just something else to go wrong.
Suspension breakthrough, or marketting breakthrough?
Opinions, people?
It's been around for quite a while now. From what I've heard, those in the know rate it as effective. I think the uptake as an option on Dax
kits has been quite low, mainly because of the additional expense. Others manufacturers haven't followed suit because I believe Dax have a
Patent.
David
It also has some tradeoffs. Mainly in one-wheel bump if I remember right. Gets a little sketchy on bumpy roads. No personal experience with it though.
If you watch the Ultimate Kit Car DVD then its clearly demonstrated working on track. Bill Sollis the test driver does give it some posative feedback if i remember correctly.
... in Autocar they said while it's good for grip, the lack of camber change reduced the feedback and feel in the steering, so it was harder to
push to the limit.
I've never driven it so can't comment personally.
Adam
If it is so fantastic, you'd see it on topend racecars, ..........and you don't! Nuff said. Patent or not.
Cheers,
Syd.
i agree with syd, by now *most* things have been invented or tried, and the things that really worked or made a difference will either be in use in
F1, rally or top motorsport
OR
will have been banned from racing
[Edited on 5/1/07 by liam.mccaffrey]
what does work, in a similar fashion, but less drastically, is the nik-link used on Radicals
This is a modification of a system designed over 20 years ago by, I think, a Canadian chap called Tebron, or something like that.
I have it in a book somewhere.
quote:That would be the Trebron DRC Suspension, designed by Canadian architect Norbert Hamy in the late '60s. The DRC stands for Double Roll-Centre; I'll leave the derivation of Trebron as an exercise for the reader
Originally posted by designer
This is a modification of a system designed over 20 years ago by, I think, a Canadian chap called Tebron, or something like that.
Actually, I don't really disagree with him. Think about it
for a bit and consider what point a chassis is really rolling about. It's probably not the theorectical RC which is dancing about up,
down, left, and right as the suspension travels. 
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
what does work, in a similar fashion, but less drastically, is the nik-link used on Radicals
Isnt the nik-link a negative anti roll bar?
I think it's too complex.
If it is the camberchange then make equal lenght wishbones.
If it is the body-roll then make an anti-roll bar.
Live is easy, keep it that way for us simple people.
Maybe you could use the five link system as mercedes benz does..... Or the audi with 2 balljoints low and 2 in top.....
All too complex, so why make the dax-system?
BTW: what happens if both wheels are in droop or bump in the dax-system?
[Edited on 6/1/07 by t.j.]
quote:
Originally posted by Uphill Racer
Isnt the nik-link a negative anti roll bar?
By negative I was trying to say that as the outer wheel loads up in a corner the nik-link forces the inner wheel down unlike a conventional arb
unloading inner wheel.
are you sure? I haven't got the car in front of me now, but that's not how I remember it working.
quote:
Originally posted by TheGecko
At this point, Syd should weigh in and remind us that roll centres are all crap
You lot believe what you want. It's much more peaceful that way. quote:
Actually, I don't really disagree with him.
Dominic
quote:
Originally posted by Uphill Racer
By negative I was trying to say that as the outer wheel loads up in a corner the nik-link forces the inner wheel down unlike a conventional arb unloading inner wheel.
quote:
TheGecko
At this point, Syd should weigh in and remind us that roll centres are all crap Actually, I don't really disagree with him. Think about it for a bit and consider what point a chassis is really rolling about. It's probably not the theorectical RC which is dancing about up, down, left, and right as the suspension travels.
On our Radical Clubsport we removed the Nick link and used stiffer springs instead. The driver was much happier with the feedback and stabilty of the
setup afterwards. You can't do this in the Radical championships but we can in the Castle Combe Special GT championship.
Quote from Rob's diary on www.mtcracing.co.uk
"I’ve never been a great fan of the Nik-Link suspension on the front of my car and as luck would have it one of the American guys mentioned that
he removed his and upped the front spring rate to compensate. I thought this sounded like a great idea, it would hopefully remove the odd preloading
feeling you get with the Nik-Link which would make me a lot happier."
Then from one of the race reports.
"I came into the pits and we checked over the car. I decided to leave the setting as is until I’ve done another session. One thing I did notice
was how well the car rides the bumps now I’ve removed the Nik-Link bar so that was a positive."
Maybe with more time/money we could get it to work but why bother if his times improved after removing it!
I can't comment on the subject, but i do have a pic of the niklink
Cheers
Fred W B
niklink
Now i've seen Nik i'm sure i don't want it.
It will give the movement of the spring to the otherside of the car. This causes unwanted feel of bumps in the car.
A bump right gives you a bump left??
This can't be a normal feeling if you're driving.
errr, well that is exactly what all antiroll bars do.......so you say all anti roll bars are a bad idea????
as I pointed out, that suspension design is FAR from dead simple.
If you take a look you will see that the upper coilover mounts are rockers, and each rocker has a pullrod back to the lower wishbone, thus increasing
shocker movement for given wishbone movement.
The niklink then joins these rockers as an antiroll mechanism (not a solid one, the bar actaully flexes at the bend in it) , but also in setting shock
preload, due to the geometry with the pullrods.
As I said, I have spannered for a radical team for a while, but even now I can't describe how it all works without the car in front of me!!!!
Needless to say, it works, very well, and there are not many cars quicker round a track than an SR3 or SR8.
[Edited on 8/1/07 by NS Dev]
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
errr, well that is exactly what all antiroll bars do.......so you say all anti roll bars are a bad idea????
The Dax system is not a practical diy proposition according to the guy I was talking to on their stand. The accuracy of the manufacture is one of the factors that makes it work and to implement it on a vehicle with different measurements would require it to be completely reworked. It looked to depend on the springing being overly stiff to me.
RE: the nik link...
Oooh I see! That's clever. Never seen it before. Like it! Increased damper stroke per unit wheel movement, ride height independant of shock
preload, and anti-roll. Only downside is the arb isn't adjustable as it is in that picture, though i'm sure it could be done if needed.
And just to be picky i'd call them pushrods as opposed to pullrods, nat, since if i understand it right they are always loaded in
compression
RE: the Dax system
I think this is pretty clever myself too. The base wishbone geometry is essentially halfway between no camber change (parallel and equal) and full
camber change=roll. In bump/droop the linkage cancels the camber change giving the behaviour of parallel equal wishbones, and in roll the linkage
adds camber change to fully match roll angle. To get it actually doing this takes some serious geometry/analysis and precision fabbing, and would be
a nightmare for a DIYer
I disagree with Syd's comments in this case. What's good for F1 or other top end racers isn't necessarily good for a road/track car.
Similarly things that aren't used in racing aren't necessarily a waste of time. Cars that actually have suspension travel could (and do)
benefit from systems like the above.
Liam
U got it Liam...........the suspension works great, now can anyone throw numbers as to how the nik-link works?
Hi regarding the dax system. At the end of the day dose it actually give any better results in handeling than a conventional setup simalar to the
locost when optimised.
Cheers matt
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
........................
I disagree with Syd's comments in this case. What's good for F1 or other top end racers isn't necessarily good for a road/track car. Similarly things that aren't used in racing aren't necessarily a waste of time. Cars that actually have suspension travel could (and do) benefit from systems like the above.
Liam
