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front hubs

24vseven - 17/1/07 at 11:15 PM

hi i am just took the front hubs off my doner car today -granada- found the holes in the top of the carriers are bigger than the mushrooms i have bought anyone know if diffrent sizes are available or have any sugestions
thanks colin

stevec - 17/1/07 at 11:34 PM

I think the Mushrooms are made for Sierra uprights which are probably different.
Steve

Memphis Twin - 18/1/07 at 12:22 AM

I'm changing my uprights from Sierra to Triumph in a bid to cut down on unsprung weight, so will have the complete uprights, hubs, vented discs and calipers available very soon....in case you or anyone else is interested.

Chris.

jollygreengiant - 18/1/07 at 04:38 AM

Yep you need to go for Sierra hubs, Grumpy hubs are also slightly taller than Sierra as well as the diameter of the hole being different.

James - 18/1/07 at 10:35 AM

Although, if you're using the Granada back end it will be 5 stud and the Sierra fronts are 4 stud!

Good luck sorting it!

Cheers,
James

mcerd1 - 18/1/07 at 11:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by James
Although, if you're using the Granada back end it will be 5 stud and the Sierra fronts are 4 stud!

That is easy to fix however - you make 5 stud sierra fronts

(I did this out of choice

)

Take the pair of Granada hubs out of the carriers

machine down the bearing and seal diameters to match the sierra ones
(if you cant do this yourself any good machine shop should be able to - classic conversions do this all the time too)
machining cost my Ł10 for the pair

(here are mine basted, machined, powder coated and ready to rebuild)

then build them into the sierra hub carriers as if they were sierra ones (ie. with sierra bearings and seals)

Brakes
the only added complication after this is the discs - Sierra ABS ones are the same as the std Granada ones (260mm) and use the same callipers as the Granada (so you won't need different calipers)
but the 5 stud Granada ones have a different offset to sierra ones (so the caliper won't line up) and the hub is a bit bigger (making the discs a very tight fit over the hub)

you could re-drill the sierra discs and take a little off the outside of the hub but this means you will have to re-drill a set of discs every time they need changed

the solution is to use the Granada discs, but with a 5mm thk spacer on the caliper mounts
if you can't get spacers easily yourself - give me a shout - I need to make a couple more anyway

This only leaves caliper the bolts - they will now be 5mm to short
The std ford ones are 10.9's or 12.9's (can't remember off the top of my head)
I got some new ones (zinc plated, yellow pasivated) through my work Ł8 for 4

but you can probably find a cheaper source

as for the rear - the only difference to the sierra is the number of studs and there P.C.D.

[Edited on 18/1/07 by mcerd1]

24vseven - 18/1/07 at 12:38 PM

thanks for that i was thinking about just welding up the stud holes and redrilling to a 5 stud setup but that looks a good way to go
one question tho i am useing a 24 valve cosworth as my doner these have 287 mm discs and bigger calipers will it still work ( there the same as 4x4 cossy sierra but 5 stud insted of 4)

mcerd1 - 18/1/07 at 01:12 PM

Right that changes things a little

Converting the fornt hubs could still work if the cossie front hubs are the same as the normal Granada ones (but I don't know if they are)

but you'll need to get yourself a set of ordinary 2wd Sierra uprights anyway (ABS or non-ABS, but not cossie)
you could take the hubs out of these when you get these and compair them to the ones from your Granada - if the only differnces are the diamiter of the bearing and seal faces (and obviously the PCD) then you should still be able to do it - if not you'll need normal Granada hubs or send your Sierra ones to somewere like classic conversions and get them to supply the Granada bits

the discs for the 24v Granada have the same offset as the std Granada ones but there diamiter and calipers is the same as the cossie 4x4's

as for how the calipers will line up I'm not sure - it all comes down to whether or not the 24v upright is different from the normal Granada one - I might be able to work it out if I had a set of 24v/ cossie 4x4 calipers or some measurements
(I'll post a drawing later and if you can fill in the blanks I should be able to tell/ show you how it could work)

one thing I can tell you is that 2wd cossie calipers (cast iron 4 pots) won't fit

as for the rear it should still be ok, but be aware that you will have the larger 7.5" diff (like a cossie 2wd sierra) but with 100mm CV joints (like a cossie 4x4 or XR4x4 sierra) and vented rear discs (like a cossie 4x4 sierra but 5 stud)

[Edited on 18/1/07 by mcerd1]

Mansfield - 18/1/07 at 02:10 PM

Memphis Twin

You have U2U

24vseven - 18/1/07 at 04:17 PM

the rear end isnt a problem i have built the chassis from scratch with the diff ect all in place wishbones fitted upright all on ect all from the granny came to line up the front wishbone took the hubs off the granny thats where the problem started

[Edited on 18/1/07 by 24vseven]

mcerd1 - 18/1/07 at 05:03 PM

Well the way I see it you've got 3 easy options and 1 hard one

1 - use sierra fornts and have 4 studs on the front and 5's on the rear

2 - same as above but convert the rears to 4 studs - you should be able to swap the rear flanges/hubs & carriers for sierra ones form any 4x4 or ABS sierra with 100mm bolt-on CV joints (you can't use 2wd cossie ones for this but I think most of the rest should be ok)

3 - convert the fornt hubs to 5 stud as in my posts above

4 - re-design your geometry to suit the Granada uprights

24vseven - 18/1/07 at 05:15 PM

two things
1 thanks for your help and advice
2 whats your view on drilling a sierra hub to 5 bolt pcd

mcerd1 - 19/1/07 at 10:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 24vseven
whats your view on drilling a sierra hub to 5 bolt pcd

I wouldn't bother - for all the hastle, time and posible cost of welding and drilling the casting compaired to machining a Granada hub - and the machined Granada one won't have any welding to worry about

(I would have been able to give you a spare set of Granada hubs last year - but someone else took them off me to do exactly the same conversion - he had a 24v engine too)

and no mater which way you convert the fronts you'll have the same problems with the front brakes
not a problem if you use std Granada brakes or get some alloy 4 pots with custom brakets - which reminds me, I need to get some dimensions form you too see if the std 24v calipers will work (for my own future upgrades if nothing else)

the easiest way would be to convert the rears to 4 studs (using sierra flanges and cossie 4x4 discs) you'd just have to check that the 24v rear hubs arn't special or different in any way (which I don't beleve they are)

James - 19/1/07 at 01:15 PM

You might also want to bear in mind what wheels you're after.

I looked into using a Granada as my donor and was told there weren't that many nice wheels that fitted the stud pattern.

Obviously hundreds that fit Sierra though.

HTH,
James

[Edited on 19/1/07 by James]

mcerd1 - 19/1/07 at 03:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by James
I looked into using a Granada as my donor and was told there weren't that many nice wheels that fitted the stud pattern.

Obviously hundreds that fit Sierra though.

For a Dax however its the other way round (wide 15" - 17" wheels)

but then the Dax isn't exactly locost is it

24vseven - 19/1/07 at 08:18 PM

have today had sugested to me about sleveing the hub carriers and gave it a try as it didnt mean damageing anything and all seams to be ok

any thoughts anyone

as regards the wheel situation the granny allready came fitted with a nice set of aftermarket 16" jobbies hence the reson to try and retain 5 stud

mcerd1 - 20/1/07 at 10:45 AM

If you can fill in the dimensions I've marked on this photo (as accuratly as you can) I'll measure the same on my ones and see how they compair

I'll also need the diamiter of the bolts for the caliper carrier

t = thickness of the caliper carrier where it bolts on
A or B (preferably A) = distance form the ctr of the disc/ caliper carrier to the mounting points
C = radius form the ctr of the hub to the mountings ctrs
D = distance between the mounting ctrs

If you could measure them for me on your 24v hubs that would help me alot

TL - 20/1/07 at 02:07 PM

Memphis Twin,

you have U2U

24vseven - 20/1/07 at 09:36 PM

mcerd i will bring a hub home on monday as there at my garage and drop you a line with the mesurements

mcerd1 - 7/3/07 at 03:09 PM

I've now been told (by someone on the FSOC forum) that the 24v uprights are the same as the standard granny ones - although I still can't check this

but if this is correct then it should mean that - after converting to a 5 stud 'sierra' hub - you can use 24v discs and calipers and they will only need the same 5mm spacers as the std grandada ones need