Hi,
My local council have decided that it is a wonderful idea to install speed cushions in the main route into my housing estate. The road in question cannot be avoided as it is the only way in to a large recently built residential estate.

So, I need your help to provide any hard facts or evidence which I can use to fight the council. I have already objected to the proposed installation of 10 pairs of cushions between where I join the road to the exit from the estate. I received a reply today and they are basically dismissing everything I have said. I will try to upload both my letter and the response later this evening.

There is a bunch of documentation on the Department of Transport website and some of it may prove useful but mostly it is a bit "airy-fairy". What I need is something a bit more tangible such as hard and fast facts on adverse environmental effects, accidents caused by driver distraction, motorcyclists falling off their bikes, noise pollution, damage to vehicle undersides etc etc.

I don't need to tell you how pi$$ed I'll be if I finally finish building my car only to find I can't get out of my street!!!

HELP!!!!!
Cheers,
Craig.

Here is the text from my letter (easier than attaching a Word document):

Dear Mr Lavery

Re: Installation of speed cushions on Southcraig Drive, Kilmarnock.

I am writing to you to raise my objection to the proposed installation of speed cushions on Southcraig Drive, Kilmarnock. While I think it is commendable that you are attempting to improve safety in our community I do not see how these plans will achieve that goal. Furthermore I feel that the installation of speed cushions will be a source of considerable inconvenience for those like myself who use the road on a daily basis.

Here are my specific arguments for your consideration:

1.Average traffic speeds on Southcraig Drive are not in my opinion a significant problem and certainly no worse than on any other road in the vicinity. I use the road several times per day and even though I am a confident and experienced driver I find that the narrowness of the road in conjunction with the various islands, tributary roads and other features gives a heightened impression of speed and acts as a natural speed limiter. I would need to see documented evidence that the average speed of traffic in Southcraig Drive is a specific issue before I could even accept that action was warranted. Please note that as a father of three young children living in a property which backs onto Southcraig Drive I would be one of the first to call for speed restriction if I felt it was justified in the slightest.

2.Southcraig Drive is well separated from the properties which back onto it by wide pavements and grass areas so the risk of a child or other pedestrian stepping into the road unseen is in my opinion very low. In addition, it is very rare indeed to actually see any children playing near the road since there are plenty of playgrounds around the estate where children can play more safely. I would like to draw comparison with Western Road where there are several grassy play areas adjacent to the main road with little or no fencing and I can recall more than one occasion where a football has bounced across my path as I have been driving along it. Again I would like to see evidence which justifies the implementation of traffic calming from a safety standpoint in Southcraig Drive.

3.If speed was indeed a problem in Southcraig Drive then as I said above, I would be one of the first to call for something to be done about it. However, the very last measure that I would choose would be “Speed Cushions.” As you are no doubt aware, there has been considerable research into speed reduction technology over the last few years and speed cushions seem to be one of the most controversial. Here are a few of the issues which have been raised before:


Hazardous to cyclists and motorcyclists.

Increased traffic noise due to slowing, “bump-bump” and accelerating each time.

Increased localised pollution, again due to cars accelerating away. As you are surely aware, car engines produce considerably more pollutants when accelerating than they do when at a steady speed.

Increased wear and tear on car suspension and increased fuel consumption.

Discomfort to drivers and passengers of cars, especially smaller cars.

Distraction from the road ahead due to preoccupation of trying to go over the cushion centrally. There have been cases of cars driving straight into the back of other cars because the driver was concentrating on the speed cushion and not the road ahead!

On a more personal note I also have a small trailer which I use for transporting refuse to the recycling centre and it will be badly disturbed by speed cushions due to its narrow track and lack of suspension.

On a more constructive note, if speed restriction was justified, bearing in mind my earlier comments, then I would support alternative measures which did not pose such a daily inconvenience to everyday law abiding users of the road. In particular I believe that speed display signs are an excellent deterrent as they effectively “embarrass” road users into slowing down as a result of peer pressure, especially in a residential neighbourhood where speeding is naturally frowned upon. Having a sign lighting up in front of you saying, “40 MPH – Kill your speed not a child!” would make even the most habitual speeder think again!

I would also suggest that two or perhaps even three pedestrian crossing points could be erected primarily as a method of crossing the road safely but also as a means of slowing traffic. After all, every driver knows how serious the repercussions would be if he/she were to strike a pedestrian at a crossing point and this focusses attention on the road ahead rather than distracting from it in the way that speed cushions do.

Finally, I would recommend that the local traffic police enforce the speed limit in Southcraig Drive from time to time. I don’t expect that they will catch as many speeders here as they would in Glasgow Road or Western Road but it would help to keep any complacency in check.

In summary, I do not believe that the installation of speed cushions in Southcraig Drive is in the public interest. They are not proven to be effective and have been the cause of much controversy where they have been installed. I am also not at all convinced that there is a speeding problem in Southcraig Drive which renders the whole exercise a waste of time and money.

Hopefully you will consider my objections seriously and I hope you will consider my suggested alternatives constructively.


Yours sincerely

Are these those things that are like 2 small speed humps sitting one each side of the road?

I assume your road is a 20mph limit as well if they are putting them in.

Just drive in between them (down the middle of the road). I have seen several seven type cars drive straight over them without a problem. There are loads of them around at home. They have to meet all sorts of regs as emergency vehicles must be able to pass over them without slowing down.

They arent as bad as proper speed humps, just be grateful of that...

David

David,
Yes it is the individual cushions rather than the full width speed tables.

However, the road is a 30 MPH limit not 20MPH and it is about 1km long. They are going to put 10 pairs of cushions at 100m intervals along the full length. There are also traffic islands every so often which would make it quite dangerous to drive between them so the only option is to straddle them. There are several widths of cushion that they can use with increasing levels of discomfort as they get wider.

They are planning 75mm(+/- 5mm) high bumps and given that my Locost only has about 100mm of clearance unladen, that doesn't give me much breathing space. The Locost is also likely to get grounded due to the long wheelbase compared to ground clearance.

For what good it'll do, I intend to fight this as much as I can. I think my letter puts forward a sound argument but I need to back this up with some sort of official data.

Cheers,
Craig.

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
Are these those things that are like 2 small speed humps sitting one each side of the road?

I assume your road is a 20mph limit as well if they are putting them in.

Just drive in between them (down the middle of the road). I have seen several seven type cars drive straight over them without a problem. There are loads of them around at home. They have to meet all sorts of regs as emergency vehicles must be able to pass over them without slowing down.

They arent as bad as proper speed humps, just be grateful of that...

David

---

I havent seen them on 30mph roads before. That is pointless. They would be better off lowering the speed limit and enforcing it if they want to control the traffic. Another good way I have seen at home is chicanes with high curbs each side so you cant drive over them. they work very well at slowing people down without obstructing traffic flow too much.

Given what you have said about height then I can see that you could have problems. The other options is to semi-straddle them. The ones we have around at home arent that high. Infact they were made to reduce their height as they were deemed dangerous to emergency vehicles.

You are quite right to oppose it from what you have said. Like I say an enforced lower limit would have been easier and safer IMO.

David

there are some on 30mph roads in northampton , wellingborough and milton keynes areas.....

Ive thought about them too as my car willonly have about 100mm.

looks like if you drive just one wheel over them and the other thro the gap, it wont ground.

atb

steve


atb

steve

David,
Yes that's how I feel about it and I said in my letter that I would support the use of pedestrian crossings, speed warning signs and enforcement if speeding is a problem. However, there have been no accidents on this road and since there are 6 foot fences on either side, separating the residential areas from the roads and pavements both sides and grassy areas beyond the pavements, you almost never see any kids anywhere near the road. All you ever see are people walking their dogs.

I would also hold my hands up and say that I am a faster than average driver (ie. I overtake more than I get overtaken...) but I find this road uncomfortable at anything over 35MPH due to the fact the road itself is quite narrow and they have those traffic islands every so often with the horrible high kerbs on them. My natural speed on the road is just around the 30MPH mark and yet the council have told me that the average speed measured by the police was 34MPH and 15% of drivers were exceeding 42MPH. I've never seen the police on this road nor heard of them booking anyone on it.

Anyway, if anyone out there has any compelling stories which I can use to further my cause then please let me know. I don't condone speeding, especially in a residential area but there is simply no need for traffic calming in this area.

Cheers,
Craig.

Craig they are everywhere over our way. The cash came from central goverment so the chances of fighting them is slim and none.

The came up like a rash and have stayed.

Hi Pat,
Yes I know it's a long shot but I was hoping that maybe someone on the forum had heard of a crash caused by the speed bumps or something. I know that in this area it was our local MP who was petitioned by a vocal minority of residents to impose the traffic calming but the vast majority of residents are dead against them. Unfortunately it is likes most things which people don't approve of - too few will stand up and say so, especially when there is a slim chance of winning.

Cheers,
Craig.

I have seen speed bumps lowered but not taken out, they were change from steep ridge type to more rounded ones. Changed because of the noise when vehicles going over them The ones on the in-law’s est are unreal, no way on earth you would get a locost over one even if it had twice the ground clearance & the road only leads to dead end est with only 200 houses on it

Another point is increased noise from "boy Racers" slowing down and then speeding up for the humps, with large exhausts and loud stereo's.

Any ideas as to why they have had the idea to put them there? any bad Accidents, speeding, local campaigns for them, a council officer finds it hard to pull out onto a 30mph road?, has it become a "rabbit run" for commuters. If its to stop joyriders or thieves, then they don't care anyway!

If enough people protest then surely they can't install them.

Another thing to look out for might be Emergency Service Responce time information, I'm sure they did a study in London as to how long they add to an emergency call. Maybe useful if its such a long road with only a few entrances and exits.

The hump hight regulations mystify me, once went to work in the MK and found the customer had speed bumps physically too large to get the car over, no mater how I tried (so I drove over his lawn ).
When questioned about it he said they were 1mm lower than the allowed limit, to which I replied "well my cars assed all its roadworthy tests and has a current MOT so 1 of the regulations is in the wrong!".

I seem to recall reading that traffic calming measures like these, sleeping policemen ( the tarmac ones ) etc., were removed years ago in Sweden because they made the problems worse.
Approx ten times previous pollution levels, due to drivers braking, then accellerating like hell between them.
More accidents with pedestrians ( especially children ) coming out from between parked vehicles, because the drivers were going like the clappers between the humps.
As usual our fearless leaders are yet again 10 years behind the rest of the world.
Perhaps a little web research may be of use as far as statistical evidence goes.

Hi,
I've come across a few good website on this subject this evening. Here are the highlights:

http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_humps.htm

http://www.bromleytransport.org.uk/Humps.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4661438.stm

The ABD article is very blunt and makes a bit of a mockery of the whole idea of speed bumps.

I'm going to try and pull out the strongest points from all of the above resources and present this as a coherent argument. I need to cover all the issues but keep it brief enough to ensure that I don't exceed the attention span of my local council - a tricky balance...

Thanks again,
Craig.

A load of speed bumps were installed near my parents house, their installation rendered it impossible to get from their house to any other major route wiuthout driving over at least five of the little buggers. This posed a significant problem for my mother who has a serious spinal condition, as the constant impact from being driven over these bumps did her no favours at all! As I recall this was a contributing factor in the Council's decision to replace the speed bumps with right of way chicanes. on one (but not all)of the approaches from major trunk roads. Might be something to consider for your argument if there are elderly or disabled people in the area who need to make use of the route on a regular basis. Good Luck.

Prez

Or Mexican stand offs, get two trilby drivers sat either end of one flashing at each other and you'll be there all day. My car with Pinto and unmodified sump clears the little square red ones o.k. but they put some plateaus in down the road and I can't get over them, I would have to drive on the pavement.

Some years ago, on country roads near me, they installed brutal rumble strips comming up to bends to make people slow down. These were bad enough to be dangerous. I presume there must have been a fatal accident blamed on them as they have all been removed (you can still see the marks where they used to be).

If you can find what caused these to be removed, that might be of use as part of an arguement against speed bumps.

[Edited on 8/2/06 by JonBowden]

I would say that you best bet would be to start a petition and present this to the council.

You might also want to point out that speed bumps and cushions to nothing to deter dangerous driving and in fact promote it.

They installed speed bumps on my estate a couple of years ago, since then the average speed of the kids in stolen motors has gone from 40 - 60mph as they think it's fun to try to take off when they hit the bumps. One of my neighbours is also in a legal battle with the council (which he appears to be winning) for compensation as the bumps have agrevated his arthritis.

Perversly on an estate two mile away they have installed chicanes... result is the average speed there HAS dropped as the kids have no choice but to slow down.

On the beeb website there is an report on the bus passenger that got paralised because of a speed hump.
cant find the link at the mo.

Hi Pat,
Yes I've seen that one and will most certainly me using it in my argument!

Thanks,
Craig.

Dont despair too much. There are sh1tloads of them round my house and the MK goes over them with no problem. I'll check the ground clearance on my Indy and let you know. The onl problem i ever have is if i'm 2 up (adults that is) and i go over the speed tables (full road width ones) one of them in my street must that bit higher and the bottom of the exhaust just catches it. Its ok with me and my 7 year old son and doesnt catch then. Only when i've got my lardy mates in the passenger seat

Over here, we can search legal cases by subject online through LexisNexis. There's a fee for single use, but if you know a law student or other legal practitioner, they might have an account you could use for free.

Once you locate a dozen or so cases, do a business model (amount of award x predicted occurances across 10 years) for each type of injury/collision/etc., add them up, and suggest that you will join in any class action suits that may arise (treble damages for some of those).

All the logic in the world won't be as persuasive as the fear of being sued. Toward that end, personalize it by naming each individiual on the council in your letter and state that you (and your heirs) will hold them personally responsible for damage to your vehicle, yourself and your family/friends, and your property when some other poor soul is launched off road and into your home.

Your letter could be useful when there is a problem later - it can be introduced into evidence that they were warned in writing, yet took the action which contributed to the accident/damage, etc.

I remember a program on Radio4 (it might have been You and Yours) about the disadvantages of them. It might be worth you digging around the Listen Again to see if you can find it. If not listen again then get the transcript off the BBC.

What I remember them making a big thing of was the damage caused to houses opposite the bumps caused by the vibration from car/bump impact!
Then there's also the impact on quality of life for those people opposite the bumps- loss of sleep from people going over at night.

Some taxi drivers in London are apparently charging extra on routes that cross bumps to help compensate them for suspension damage.

HTH,
James

Look up the info of that court case for the guy who took his digger (he was a builder or something) to the one outside his house!

someone where i live was caught smashing them up with a pickaxe lol


theyre all down the main street that ours is a branch off the landy doesnt touch them so i guess has same track width as an ambulance and the jag doesnt notice them at all if you drive at 50 because the suspension does all the work as with most modern cars so it has infact increased the average speed of most people because they drive faster to not be bumped as much and made it even more dangerous for people in cars with low ground clearance or cars with elderly people in as they drive very slowly over them