A light 4 cylinder engine needed.
I’m debating about these 2 engines; Yes I can get a T5 (without gear box, need 960 box for this for RWD) for about 500 quid with the turbo and ecu and
loom . Or the Honda f20c for bout 2800quid with gearbox, ecu and loom both produce about the same BHP. One revs higher than the other.
What should I go for? I’m pointing to the Volvo engine per price and HP.
At the moment wiring is not an issue just deciding which one.
Of course the Zetec is not enough power for me and duratec is out the question, it’s out of my budget. And a proper engine must have the exhaust on
the drivers side.
T5 is a 5 cylinder and is my weapon of choice
I think the high revving relatively low torque Honda is better suited to a light weight sportscar. Bet the engine gearbox combo is a lot lighter than the Volvo too.
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
T5 is a 5 cylinder and is my weapon of choice
bmw m3, exhaust exits next to the drive, makes 325bhp, no turbo lag and with a midrange to make a f20c look a little silly.
Run it on the standard ecu too.
Honds FC 247 bhp @ 8,300 rpm and (218 N·m; 161 lb·ft) @ 7,500 rpm
Whats can the T5 produce? dose anyone know engine weight? power to weight is important. bike engine is no good for me either. the vauhall redtop is
a nono. its one of these 2.
An m3 makes 321 at 7300ish rpm and 258 lb·ft at 3250 rpm
quote:
Originally posted by franky
bmw m3, exhaust exits next to the drive, makes 325bhp, no turbo lag and with a midrange to make a f20c look a little silly.
Run it on the standard ecu too.
In fact I think its your car im talking about
The T5 makes 220 bhp in the standard 850, and 240 in the 850R. But with a decent exhaust, ( 3" ), a bigger turbo and injectors plus a better
intercooler you could be looking at 350 to 400 bhp, but it all costs, :-( HTH Ray
Edit to add its an all ally engine so not too heavy
[Edited on 23-10-11 by Chippy]
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
quote:
Originally posted by franky
bmw m3, exhaust exits next to the drive, makes 325bhp, no turbo lag and with a midrange to make a f20c look a little silly.
Run it on the standard ecu too.
I went to Exeter kit car show today. a dax chassis there with a M3 s54 init. its an idea ive been looking at. also i know GKD put M3 s50 b32 ad drive gear in there and made ok power to weight about 738kg. 0-100 claim just under 8sec. its on Pistonheads somwhere.
Unfortunatly im using a locost chassis. donno if an m3 will go... but I love the engine. ive had a few e36 m3s and never failed.
quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
The T5 makes 220 bhp in the standard 850, and 240 in the 850R. But with a decent exhaust, ( 3" ), a bigger turbo and injectors plus a better intercoole
r you could be looking at 350 to 400 bhp, but it all costs, :-( HTH Ray
i can't see you managing to fit the superb E36 M3 engine for £1500
a decent exhaust alone will cost a pretty penny and will be a tight fit in a standard locost chassis
The honda engine is a fantastic bit of kit too i would not be unhappy having one in my kit but it won't be a cheap swap.
i think out of the ones u suggested so far the T5 lump from a volvo has the most potential and chance of being done on a budget
quote:
Originally posted by franky
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
quote:
Originally posted by franky
bmw m3, exhaust exits next to the drive, makes 325bhp, no turbo lag and with a midrange to make a f20c look a little silly.
Run it on the standard ecu too.
I went to Exeter kit car show today. a dax chassis there with a M3 s54 init. its an idea ive been looking at. also i know GKD put M3 s50 b32 ad drive gear in there and made ok power to weight about 738kg. 0-100 claim just under 8sec. its on Pistonheads somwhere.
Unfortunatly im using a locost chassis. donno if an m3 will go... but I love the engine. ive had a few e36 m3s and never failed.
That was my car, the weight came from the chassis being a lot stronger than standard/full cage/steel floors/double side impact and padded seats, and and by telling the truth too
the 0-100 in under 8 wasn't claimed, it was proven. That was short shifting too on the first and only attempt. Power to weight was about 485bhp/tonne.
Everyone who drove the car loved it and the weight never had an impact on the handling at all.
Ignoring all the above, you can fit one and get it running in a kit for under £1.5k.....
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
The T5 makes 220 bhp in the standard 850, and 240 in the 850R. But with a decent exhaust, ( 3" ), a bigger turbo and injectors plus a better intercoole
r you could be looking at 350 to 400 bhp, but it all costs, :-( HTH Ray
Its coming out my manual V70 2.3 r. Hope you BOA is going strong. Im missing my BOB.
quote:
Originally posted by dlatch
i can't see you managing to fit the superb E36 M3 engine for £1500
a decent exhaust alone will cost a pretty penny and will be a tight fit in a standard locost chassis
The honda engine is a fantastic bit of kit too i would not be unhappy having one in my kit but it won't be a cheap swap.
i think out of the ones u suggested so far the T5 lump from a volvo has the most potential and chance of being done on a budget
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
quote:
Originally posted by franky
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
quote:
Originally posted by franky
bmw m3, exhaust exits next to the drive, makes 325bhp, no turbo lag and with a midrange to make a f20c look a little silly.
Run it on the standard ecu too.
I went to Exeter kit car show today. a dax chassis there with a M3 s54 init. its an idea ive been looking at. also i know GKD put M3 s50 b32 ad drive gear in there and made ok power to weight about 738kg. 0-100 claim just under 8sec. its on Pistonheads somwhere.
Unfortunatly im using a locost chassis. donno if an m3 will go... but I love the engine. ive had a few e36 m3s and never failed.
That was my car, the weight came from the chassis being a lot stronger than standard/full cage/steel floors/double side impact and padded seats, and and by telling the truth too
the 0-100 in under 8 wasn't claimed, it was proven. That was short shifting too on the first and only attempt. Power to weight was about 485bhp/tonne.
Everyone who drove the car loved it and the weight never had an impact on the handling at all.
Ignoring all the above, you can fit one and get it running in a kit for under £1.5k.....
Not doubting you at all. I saw the video on Piston head. and i was counting to the best of my ability and whoeve was driving, his glasses flew off his head. I wanted to know what he was racing; he didnt stand a chance.
485bhp/tonne is looking great per price too. almost r500 fiqures, but yes looking at the pics you had plenty of room.
and whatever engine a decide i will be keeping with stock ecu. thanks for you input.
Looks like I might think about the s50b32, as long as I can find a decent one with good quiet vanos etc.
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
A light 4 cylinder engine....
Of course the Zetec is not enough power for me and duratec is out the question, it’s out of my budget. And a proper engine must have the exhaust on the drivers side.
Anyone know the real weight of the S2000 drive unit?? ??
Besides being problematically tall it's allegedly surprisingly heavy?
Somehow 520 lbs rings a bell ....Is that even close to correct??
Dunno .. just asking.
What about the Civic Type R engine, I cant remember the engine code but power (and max rev’s) is similar to the S2000 engine.
I know the S2000 has the advantage of being fitted North South but the Civic engine can be converted. I don’t know the stat’s but I believe it might
be slightly more compact/lighter, probably a little cheaper and could be used with a lighter, more compact gearbox to save further weight.
Either way I like the Honda engines and would choose one in a hart-beat, seems to me they offer the thrill of a bike engine but the day to day
convenience and reliability of a car engine. Just wish they were cheaper!
quote:
Originally posted by orton1966
What about the Civic Type R engine, I cant remember the engine code but power (and max rev’s) is similar to the S2000 engine.
I know the S2000 has the advantage of being fitted North South but the Civic engine can be converted. I don’t know the stat’s but I believe it might be slightly more compact/lighter, probably a little cheaper and could be used with a lighter, more compact gearbox to save further weight.
Either way I like the Honda engines and would choose one in a hart-beat, seems to me they offer the thrill of a bike engine but the day to day convenience and reliability of a car engine. Just wish they were cheaper!
Are you seriously thinking that fitting an S2000 engine will cost you less than the same bhp Duratec?
Even at the 240bhp level (which is just throttle bodies, cams and better rods/pistons) it'll set you back less than 2/3rds the cost of a stock
S2000 engine....
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
A light 4 cylinder engine needed.
I’m debating about these 2 engines; T5 Or the Honda f20c
quote:
Originally posted by franky
An s2000 is a great choice of engine too and they like to rev. I'd be happy with either to be honest. Not overly sold on a big hp turbo engine in a light car.
I looked into it and the general consensus was that the bare Honda engine is 150kg. Heavy, but still a great motor!
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Are you seriously thinking that fitting an S2000 engine will cost you less than the same bhp Duratec?
Even at the 240bhp level (which is just throttle bodies, cams and better rods/pistons) it'll set you back less than 2/3rds the cost of a stock S2000 engine....
Just for interest, the 'fully dressed' wts that I have including inlet manifold, clutch and flywheels, for all standard parts are:
2.0 duratec ~121kg
k series rover ~ 96.5
S2000 ~158 kg
Toyota vvti 1.9 137kg
Regards
Hugh
Have you considered the Volvo T4 4 pot 200bhp as standard and fitted to the S40 & V40's
The earlier 1.9 B4192 is the stronger engine with internals as stock being able to handle 300+bhp which with a bigger turbo and injectors is easily
achievable. Complete cars for not a lot of money (I have 2) Later cars used a 2.0 engine same bhp but not considered to be as strong
FWIW, a friend has a tuned T5 in a Volvo 850. The upper limits for power are pretty high - not sure what he's currently getting but I think
it's something in the 4-500 bhp range, more than enough for a 7. Also, it sounds fantastic with a custom exhaust, loads more character than an
inline 4. I could think of worse engines for a 7.
The M3 is a very nice choice too, but it's quite big. However it can certainly be made to work.
quote:
Unfortunatly im using a locost chassis. donno if an m3 will go... but I love the engine. ive had a few e36 m3s and never failed.
Both engines are great parts donors
I've got the turbo from a T5, and the injectors from an s2000.
The injectors will run out of flow before the turbo runs out of puff.
iirc, back in 2005 my S2000 engine weighed in at 147kgs fully built up, clutch, flywheel, inlet manifold, alternator etc
The gearbox was a further 47kgs, so thereabouts 194kgs iirc
Not light by any means, but a 1600cc mx5 set up was only lighter by a shade under 30kgs.
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Are you seriously thinking that fitting an S2000 engine will cost you less than the same bhp Duratec?
Even at the 240bhp level (which is just throttle bodies, cams and better rods/pistons) it'll set you back less than 2/3rds the cost of a stock S2000 engine....
Yes but you are looking at new crate cossie engines at that price.
You are talking to the wrong person about duratecs obviously... my supercharged duratec cost under £2.5k...including fully forged internals
Do it yourself 240bhp duratec would be under £1.5k including engine management.
Engines can be had for under £200 now, leaving a lot of money for tuning.
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
Unfortunatly im using a locost chassis. donno if an m3 will go... but I love the engine. ive had a few e36 m3s and never failed.
I'm fitting a BMW all alloy M52 6 pot to my Haynes at the moment, and it fits just!! In 2.8 guise these'll make 240bhp with just an inlet manifold swap from an earlier M50 325i. It's essentially the same engine as the M3 and can even use M3 cams etc to take it up to 260-280bhp. They already come with a gearbox pointing in the right direction, and mine cost £150 with everything on it
quote:
Originally posted by kensprin
Using the S2000 240hp 3k max with standard inlet manifold and stock ecu will be cheaper comes with a box too man enuf.
quote:
A m52 is not the same as an m3 lump. You're getting confused with a US m3 which was just a 328 with cams etc.
quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Does the F20 not also require dry dumping to get it in?.. another few £000's to factor into the costs.
quote:
Originally posted by orton1966
What about the Civic Type R engine, I cant remember the engine code but power (and max rev’s) is similar to the S2000 engine.
I know the S2000 has the advantage of being fitted North South but the Civic engine can be converted. I don’t know the stat’s but I believe it might be slightly more compact/lighter, probably a little cheaper and could be used with a lighter, more compact gearbox to save further weight.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Does the F20 not also require dry dumping to get it in?.. another few £000's to factor into the costs.
A few thousand pounds to dry sump an F20C? Surely that can't be right?
Dose the F20c need dry sumping? all depending on the top clearance and mounting height
They are bloody tall engines, definately need drysumping in a seven, unless you want to mount them very high or have no ground clearance.
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Yes but you are looking at new crate cossie engines at that price.
You are talking to the wrong person about duratecs obviously... my supercharged duratec cost under £2.5k...including fully forged internals
Do it yourself 240bhp duratec would be under £1.5k including engine management.
Engines can be had for under £200 now, leaving a lot of money for tuning.
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
They are bloody tall engines, definately need drysumping in a seven, unless you want to mount them very high or have no ground clearance.
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
A m52 is not the same as an m3 lump. You're getting confused with a US m3 which was just a 328 with cams etc.
I'm no expert (but am learning) but from what I understand they are very similar, blocks heads etc. The M52 obviously went alloy blocked (saving about 30kg apparently) so the M3 lump is more like a bored/stroked M50. I just think M3'ing (with cams, throttle bodies etc) a 2.8 M52 would make a cracking motor for a 'Seven'. Part of my reasoning for choosing the M52 was that if I get bored than the M3 motor will pretty much drop in
quote:
Originally posted by franky
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
A m52 is not the same as an m3 lump. You're getting confused with a US m3 which was just a 328 with cams etc.
I'm no expert (but am learning) but from what I understand they are very similar, blocks heads etc. The M52 obviously went alloy blocked (saving about 30kg apparently) so the M3 lump is more like a bored/stroked M50. I just think M3'ing (with cams, throttle bodies etc) a 2.8 M52 would make a cracking motor for a 'Seven'. Part of my reasoning for choosing the M52 was that if I get bored than the M3 motor will pretty much drop in
You're thinking about the USA spec M3's. The Euro m3's were a totally different design by the 'M' division. Euro ITB's/cams wont' work in a m52, zero parts are interchangeable.
If you get on some of the BMW forums you might be able to get American spec m3 stuff which will fit your engine. The 30kg is a good saving though. To be honest a 328 engine must be the best engine/box combo around as you can get 220bhp for £350 or less.
Great engine choice
quote:
Originally posted by PeteS2k
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
They are bloody tall engines, definately need drysumping in a seven, unless you want to mount them very high or have no ground clearance.
F20C engine doesn't require dry sumping to fit in a seven. It is a tall engine, so you may need a bonnet bulge, depending on the design of the kit. Dry sumping may save a little bit of clearance, but not a lot, as the bell-housing hangs quite low, and quickly becomes the low point. The low part of the sump sits up front, close to the front wheels, so gets lifted well clear of most obstacles like speed humps as you drive over them.
I'm using a DTA S60Pro. I had originally planned on using the stock ECU, but ultimately decided the cost vs. hassle balance for me swung towards
aftermarket! There's a fair bit of loom juggling and unused circuits and sensors to take account of using the stock ECU, but it is do-able,
and the info is out there...
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
Originally posted by franky
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
A m52 is not the same as an m3 lump. You're getting confused with a US m3 which was just a 328 with cams etc.
I'm no expert (but am learning) but from what I understand they are very similar, blocks heads etc. The M52 obviously went alloy blocked (saving about 30kg apparently) so the M3 lump is more like a bored/stroked M50. I just think M3'ing (with cams, throttle bodies etc) a 2.8 M52 would make a cracking motor for a 'Seven'. Part of my reasoning for choosing the M52 was that if I get bored than the M3 motor will pretty much drop in
You're thinking about the USA spec M3's. The Euro m3's were a totally different design by the 'M' division. Euro ITB's/cams wont' work in a m52, zero parts are interchangeable.
If you get on some of the BMW forums you might be able to get American spec m3 stuff which will fit your engine. The 30kg is a good saving though. To be honest a 328 engine must be the best engine/box combo around as you can get 220bhp for £350 or less.
Great engine choice
Oh, it's all very complicated this BM 6pot bussiness!!
It's easy to agree that a M52B28 is an excellent choice for performance per pound though
For £250 here - http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthread.php?tid=162267
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Are you seriously thinking that fitting an S2000 engine will cost you less than the same bhp Duratec?
Even at the 240bhp level (which is just throttle bodies, cams and better rods/pistons) it'll set you back less than 2/3rds the cost of a stock S2000 engine....
Depends how much you want to use your ingenuity and patience. Parts come up for sale on ebay all the time...
Things have really changed so much, everyone just wants to buy new parts now, when you can get similar results for a lot less if you are happy to pick
up a grinder and welder.
St150 engine - £200 comes with suitable flywheel.
Clutch to suit - £100
Bellhousing - £100 S/H. If you can weld and cut straight with an angry grinder I can get you plans for your own sump. Or a laser cut kit to weld
up.
Bike throttle bodies - £50-100 depending on what you want (you dont need injectors). Will give the same results as using jenveys, just not as neat.
Anyway a set of Jenveys would never set you back £1k, more likely £650.
Inlet manifold - make your own from laser cut plate and tube. Cost < £30
Rods and pistons - if you import them from the usa will cost under £400. Secondhand bet on around £200.
Cams - £300 - no choice unless you want a second hand set.
All depends how much you want to/can do yourself....
You could just have bigger valve reliefs cut into the standard pistons, then you could retain them and the rods, as both are OK for street use at
those power levels.
Don't forget to add mapping costs and the fact you're running a tuned engine not one designed to make silly bhp for 100,000+ Miles.
Obviously I'm going to vouch for the s2k
I am dreaming of the day when im approaching 9k rpm, hearing it come on cam
I'm not so sure that it can be raised to 10k rpm, that is a huge amount of mean piston speed increase. Maybe up to 9,300, but i'd be very
interested to be told otherwise!
They can take a s/c on standard internals all the way to at least 350hp at the wheels and the box is good for 500hp
C'mon all this pub talk
klookit This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkhcMzp9EA8&feature=BFa&list=PL4A5E1465A79DFFA9&lf=results_main
Arguably the fastest production 7 on the planet....100+- Kg power unit .. complete
And it's a real 7 :-) not a diy in the shed effort, fitted with some 6 cyl pig iron special.
Bet Duncan's Dax is faster...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzLMBMbCYUk
quote:
Originally posted by Bare
C'mon all this pub talk
klookit This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkhcMzp9EA8&feature=BFa&list=PL4A5E1465A79DFFA9&lf=results_main
Arguably the fastest production 7 on the planet....100+- Kg power unit .. complete
And it's a real 7 :-) not a diy in the shed effort, fitted with some 6 cyl pig iron special.
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Depends how much you want to use your ingenuity and patience. Parts come up for sale on ebay all the time...
Things have really changed so much, everyone just wants to buy new parts now, when you can get similar results for a lot less if you are happy to pick up a grinder and welder.
St150 engine - £200 comes with suitable flywheel.
Clutch to suit - £100
Bellhousing - £100 S/H. If you can weld and cut straight with an angry grinder I can get you plans for your own sump. Or a laser cut kit to weld up.
Bike throttle bodies - £50-100 depending on what you want (you dont need injectors). Will give the same results as using jenveys, just not as neat. Anyway a set of Jenveys would never set you back £1k, more likely £650.
Inlet manifold - make your own from laser cut plate and tube. Cost < £30
Rods and pistons - if you import them from the usa will cost under £400. Secondhand bet on around £200.
Cams - £300 - no choice unless you want a second hand set.
All depends how much you want to/can do yourself....
You could just have bigger valve reliefs cut into the standard pistons, then you could retain them and the rods, as both are OK for street use at those power levels.
quote:
Originally posted by Bare
Arguably the fastest production 7 on the planet....100+- Kg power unit .. complete
And it's a real 7 :-) not a diy in the shed effort, fitted with some 6 cyl pig iron special.
quote:
Originally posted by DH2
quote:
Originally posted by Bare
Arguably the fastest production 7 on the planet....100+- Kg power unit .. complete
And it's a real 7 :-) not a diy in the shed effort, fitted with some 6 cyl pig iron special.
Errrm, yeah, right, ok...
DH2
Been reading this thread with great interest this week and just struggling to understand where some people get their information from?
I am obviously biased towards the honda motor as I think the high revving high power is good in a 7, but Its not the lightest out there, I agree. The
Volvo,Saab or BMW engines would probably have more potential power wise for a reasonable cost as a rotrex s/c setup on the f20c is not cheap.
I would say a dry sump set up like chris masons would be a good option if you intend on doing any serious track days,especially on slicks! But where
these people are getting there info from regarding size is a mystery to me? Mine is on the standard Honda engine mounts with more ground clearance u
der sump than my previous bike engined kit (yamaha R1) and the bonnet fits on no problem without a scoop.
If you need any info on where to find a good donor give me a shout. I got a side impacted cat d 2003 car with 25k for £3k and sold loads of bits to
help fund the build. The expensive parts are things like exhaust,ecu and dash clocks/ gauges etc. As an aftermarket ecu can lower the v-tec giving
much more torque lower down the rev range. I've had mine lowered to around 4200 rpm.
[Edited on 29/10/11 by daniel mason]
Having been I believe the second person on the UK (after Blink Motorsport) to drop a F20C engine into a 7-type, I think if I was looking at doing it
again I would use a K20A out of a Type-R instead. They are much cheaper and very much easier to tune, many more parts available and from a much larger
range of manufacturers with just about every part being something like 1/3rd less expensive when compared to the F20C.
You would find it easy to use the oem ecu (unlike the F20), which would save you a significant sum. Speak to ADR-Engineering and get one of their
bellhousings (http://www.racecarsdirect.com/photos/hondak20bellhousingEWtjqjth.jpg) and use your existing box (Note: you may have to change the
Diff's CWP to a more suitable ratio).
While I would advocate the use of a Drysump you could always get a Canton Accusump.
With the F20C you will need to confirm that the oil jet bolts are the 4 hole variety and not the two as these can lead to oil starvation issues. (Four
new 4 hole oil jet bolts will set you back £100)
Now whilst the K20 does not rev as high as the F20 it does produce more torque and can easily be taken to 300bhp with only minor mods. It used sleeved
cylinder bores so piston choice is huge (unlike the F20 which uses FRM and is therfore only compatible with either oem or Mahle Gold pistons, plus
honing a FRM bore it a very specialist and costly job). One area I would recommend you look at for either the F20 or K20 would be to change the valve
spring retainers for Toolsteel ones. They are a know issue with the F20 whereby they crack. Toolsteel retainers are about the same weight as Titanium
but do not suffer from the associated galling. They are often changed in the K20 to provide a higher safety margin.
The pro's of the K20 very much outweigh the cons in my opinion when comparing it to the F20C.
[Edited on 30/12/11 by atomic]
Surely if you can get a decent s2000 cat d donor it will be cheaper than buying seperate items for the k20?
I got: all steering including ignition,engine start,indicator and lighting stalks,engine,box,diff,drive shafts,propshaft,handbrake,
and sold the rest of the car. And as you say parts are worth good money, especially electric roof and seats
ill not offer anything ......................
t5 engine is about 150 kgs in weight , but youll have associated plumbing with the intercooler to think about .
a simple remap and youll be on 280 hp , no more than that tho unless you change the injectors .
quote:
Originally posted by atomic
Having been I believe the second person on the UK (after Blink Motorsport) to drop a F20C engine into a 7-type, I think if I was looking at doing it again I would use a K20A out of a Type-R instead. They are much cheaper and very much easier to tune, many more parts available and from a much larger range of manufacturers with just about every part being something like 1/3rd less expensive when compared to the F20C.
You would find it easy to use the oem ecu (unlike the F20), which would save you a significant sum. Speak to ADR-Engineering and get one of their bellhousings (http://www.racecarsdirect.com/photos/hondak20bellhousingEWtjqjth.jpg) and use your existing box (Note: you may have to change the Diff's CWP to a more suitable ratio).
While I would advocate the use of a Drysump you could always get a Canton Accusump.
With the F20C you will need to confirm that the oil jet bolts are the 4 hole variety and not the two as these can lead to oil starvation issues. (Four new 4 hole oil jet bolts will set you back £100)
Now whilst the K20 does not rev as high as the F20 it does produce more torque and can easily be taken to 300bhp with only minor mods. It used sleeved cylinder bores so piston choice is huge (unlike the F20 which uses FRM and is therfore only compatible with either oem or Mahle Gold pistons, plus honing a FRM bore it a very specialist and costly job). One area I would recommend you look at for either the F20 or K20 would be to change the valve spring retainers for Toolsteel ones. They are a know issue with the F20 whereby they crack. Toolsteel retainers are about the same weight as Titanium but do not suffer from the associated galling. They are often changed in the K20 to provide a higher safety margin.
The pro's of the K20 very much outweigh the cons in my opinion when comparing it to the F20C.
quote:
Originally posted by Rocket_Rabbit
quote:
Originally posted by atomic
Having been I believe the second person on the UK (after Blink Motorsport) to drop a F20C engine into a 7-type, I think if I was looking at doing it again I would use a K20A out of a Type-R instead. They are much cheaper and very much easier to tune, many more parts available and from a much larger range of manufacturers with just about every part being something like 1/3rd less expensive when compared to the F20C.
You would find it easy to use the oem ecu (unlike the F20), which would save you a significant sum. Speak to ADR-Engineering and get one of their bellhousings (http://www.racecarsdirect.com/photos/hondak20bellhousingEWtjqjth.jpg) and use your existing box (Note: you may have to change the Diff's CWP to a more suitable ratio).
While I would advocate the use of a Drysump you could always get a Canton Accusump.
With the F20C you will need to confirm that the oil jet bolts are the 4 hole variety and not the two as these can lead to oil starvation issues. (Four new 4 hole oil jet bolts will set you back £100)
Now whilst the K20 does not rev as high as the F20 it does produce more torque and can easily be taken to 300bhp with only minor mods. It used sleeved cylinder bores so piston choice is huge (unlike the F20 which uses FRM and is therfore only compatible with either oem or Mahle Gold pistons, plus honing a FRM bore it a very specialist and costly job). One area I would recommend you look at for either the F20 or K20 would be to change the valve spring retainers for Toolsteel ones. They are a know issue with the F20 whereby they crack. Toolsteel retainers are about the same weight as Titanium but do not suffer from the associated galling. They are often changed in the K20 to provide a higher safety margin.
The pro's of the K20 very much outweigh the cons in my opinion when comparing it to the F20C.
K20 being taken to 300bhp with only minor mods?! :lol: Keep dreaming!
The F20C is far superior to the K20, mainly in terms of it's strength.
The weak point of the pre 2004 motors is the retainers as you say. They are good for 9000rpm, but not a jot more.
They are cracked from over-revving which is something that is quite easy to do with the slick gearbox.
2004 retainers will cover you to 9500 no problem
If you get a JDM F20, you have 11.7:1 comp ratio. You only need to change the cams, retainers, valve springs and ECU to see 280bhp. Add to it ITBs and you'll get a good boost of power from 4500rpm to 8000rpm and maybe another 5-10bhp peak.
K series is weak compared to the F20.
quote:
Originally posted by wylliezx9r
I think the high revving relatively low torque Honda is better suited to a light weight sportscar. Bet the engine gearbox combo is a lot lighter than the Volvo too.