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vauxhall xe sump
mattplace - 7/2/05 at 08:13 PM

does anyone have any pics or designs of a modified sump?

i'm about to attempt to cut'n'shut mine but don't know how shallow it can go.

also want baffles but will this be enough to stop oil surge???

Ben_Copeland - 7/2/05 at 08:35 PM

Me too please

Northy - 7/2/05 at 08:57 PM

And me!

I've got one to do too.

Danozeman - 7/2/05 at 09:11 PM

and me im considering an xe too..

billy - 7/2/05 at 09:44 PM

hi chaps, ill look to see if i got any picks of mine, mr G may also have some. ill see if i can post some

NS Dev - 7/2/05 at 10:26 PM

Gosh, more XE questions!

The "how shallow can you go" question depends on how much oil you want to run and how good your baffling is.

You can go for the parallel, westfield sump, where the base of the sump is more or less the same shape as the top, and is 90mm (approx) deep all the way along. You can't go any shallower at the rear of the sump as the flywheel protrudes 90mm below the block flange.

As far as baffles go, a horizontal plate set at oil level in the sump, with a hole for the pickup pipe/dipstick, and suitable oil returns, swaged downwards to resist oil surging back up through them.

I would also say that the Caterham idea of foam baffling is (in my opinion) a good one, very surge reistant. I see in this months PPC magazine they have taken a look at a foam baffled sump from a single seater racer and the foam has done 10 seasons racing with no problems.

I am using a Caterham sump on my XE, I know Northy has had worries, (what angle of nose down on the engine do you run now Northy? mine's less than 1 degree)

The caterham one is VERY shallow, internally the sump is only around 35mm below the windage tray on the XE!! The foam insert is trapped between the tray and the sump base.

Northy - 7/2/05 at 10:29 PM

I've had to overfill my sump to stop surge....

NS Dev - 7/2/05 at 10:32 PM

What nose down angle on the engine are you running and, to ask the really stupid question, how do you know it's overfull of oil?

Northy - 7/2/05 at 10:39 PM

No idea what angle, but not much. Can't measure it as I've just put the back end on axle stands tonight to fit the new back end.

Because its above the max line..... is that a trick question?

NS Dev - 7/2/05 at 10:44 PM

Is that the Max line on the vauxhall dipstick? This will not correspond to the max with the Caterham sump, as the volumes of each are different!

Havig said that I haven't calibrated mine yet, need to speak to Caterham Midlands (1 mile down the road fortunately!) to get the appropriate qty of oil to fill with and some new foam. I'll then fill with the amount they specify and re-engrave the dipstick to suit.

I might be wrong and by chance the Vauxhall marks are right but I very much doubt it. (you can't even get the 4.5 litres recommended for the Astra into the caterham sump, I tried with water in the kitchen!)

Ben_Copeland - 7/2/05 at 10:49 PM

I nicked these pictures off Ned's site.. hope he dont mind







Westfield Sump BTW

[Edited on 7/2/05 by Ben_Copeland]

nige - 8/2/05 at 08:26 PM

so i take it nobody has any pics of a
modded cav sump

pity as im going that way !!!!!

JJM - 8/2/05 at 09:14 PM

Heres a pic of a modified manta sump if it helps??

NS Dev - 9/2/05 at 10:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by nige
so i take it nobody has any pics of a
modded cav sump

pity as im going that way !!!!!


You just need to make a steel copy of the one that Ben Copeland put the pics of above (the one that Ned has pics of) which is the SBD/QED/Westfield one. Make a steel "tub" the same shape and size as that one and a steel baffle that is a copy of the ally one inside that sump.

Make it 90mm deep from flange to base minimum, max depth will be limited by ground clearance.

Mod the pickup pipe to suit.

It's not tricky, the hardest bit is making the welds oil tight, test with water first as this will find any hole and not ruin any "patch" welds necessary over leaks. If mig welding it, make sure that if you stop mid-run, that you restart 8-10mm back over the already done seam so you don't get a "cold start" which will leak.

Bolt to cav sump to an engine block, or if you only have the one you are going to use, then bolt it to something else flat and sturdy, I have used 40mm melamine worktop offcuts, as these are nice and smooth and flat. Use all the bolt holes. Cut off the sump all the way round to leave a vertical "skirt", of a max depth 90mm. When I have done it in the past, I have just cut all the way around leaving a 10-15mm skirt and fabricated the rest from scratch, looks neater. Use either 1.6mm or 1.2mm steel, thinner will distort and be tricky to weld nicely. Make a strip of steel the corect width to give the 90mm depth, i.e. if you left a 15mm "skirt then make a 75mm strip, bend it to suit the sump corners and tack it in place at intervals. Then make a flat base to suit, tack into place and seam weld the whole lot up, altertnatively weldng 4" sections from one side to another to avoid too much distortion.

Weld a couple of strips of 25/30mm x 3mm mild steel to the base of the sump for skid protection, then make a baffle plate like the one pictured above and weld lugs into the sump, drill and tap them and bolt the baffle plate in, either burring the threads and/or using loctite too. Welding in the baffle is not a good idea unless it's welded all the way around (which is not possible with this type of baffle obviously!) as the welds may/will crack with the vibration. Its up to you but I would also get some suitable foam (fuel tank foam, or just get some from Caterham for £10) and put it under the baffle before bolting it in.

Then just mod the pickup pipe to suit, keeping a min of 8mm between the base of the sump and the pickup pipe in case you dent the sump, you don't want this to block the pickup off!

NS Dev - 9/2/05 at 10:38 AM

Oh yes, forgot to say, cut around the sump plug, say a 10mm ring around it, cut a flat off the 10mm ring around the plug and weld this into the side of the sump near to the bottom with the flat at the bottom!

nige - 9/2/05 at 12:46 PM

excellent post nsdev
just what i was after
printed off , all i need now is the sump
and im away

NS Dev - 9/2/05 at 02:17 PM

any (steel obviously) cavalier/carlton/calibra/astra 1800/2000 sohc engine's sump will do

Stu16v - 9/2/05 at 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Is that the Max line on the vauxhall dipstick? This will not correspond to the max with the Caterham sump, as the volumes of each are different!


You are likely to find that the VX dipstick height *is* the same for the Caterham sump. The reason being is that if the oil level is raised much higher, the crank will be thrashing around in it - not good! And there will be extra strain on oil seals etc.

And yup, you will probably loose oil volume.

The same mark is used for the Westy type sump, and it holds a similar amount of oil compared to a standard sump too IIRC...

NS Dev - 9/2/05 at 11:48 PM

maybe, but my other concern was that the dipstick is set for a 7 degree slant towards it, so running the engine without this angle will also cause the oil level to appear lower on the stick than it is relative to the crank.......if you see what I mean!

mattplace - 9/2/05 at 11:57 PM

thanks nsdev for that. i will crack on with it tomorrow and put photos on my archive when it lets me.
tried to put a few on earlier but is playing funny buggers.

Ben_Copeland - 11/2/05 at 06:43 PM

What do people think of the way this has been done ?? Found them on my computer. A little rough around the edges. but what about the theory ?


VX Sump1
VX Sump1
VX Sump2
VX Sump2
VX Sump3
VX Sump3

Ben_Copeland - 11/2/05 at 06:44 PM

Dont like the positioning of the sump plug !!!!!

Mr G - 11/2/05 at 07:02 PM

See the picture I posted of a side shot of Billys modified 16v astra sump (semi gull wing) - on THIS thread

Here's what it looks like from the inside:




HTH


Cheers


G

[Edited on 11/2/05 by Mr G]

blakep82 - 18/6/20 at 11:09 PM

sorry to revive a 15 year old thread, but i'm just about to start doing this same job myself
i got the sump off an ascona, cut the bottom off at 7 degrees, as my engine is tllted, and to clear the chassis, i've had to cut 50mm off one side, to 30mm on the other to achieve the angle

all good so far. i'll need to shorted the pick up pipe, and thats ok.

the piece i cut off is exactly 1L volume, which i intend to add back in with adding wings, one at 0.8L volume, one at 0.4L volume

the sump is the same as this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332525929579
what level does the oil ACTUALLY got it? up past the flattened area?

my intention is to put a baffle on top, like this
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aTsAAOSwMLBan96I/s-l1600.jpg

to catch the oil, and wings on the sides

seems fair?
cheers!

Ben_Copeland - 19/6/20 at 04:09 AM

Oil level should be the same as a standard engine. If you’ve got a dip stick use that to judge.