NS Dev
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 01:01 PM |
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Who still makes wishbones for Cortina Uprights
Hi,
First post. Just sold my homebuilt RWD peugeot 205 and am about to embark on a Seven build.
I part built one some years ago from scratch, but am a bit short on time now so I plan to buy the basics.
I see MK and Stuart Taylor both only do wishbones for the Sierra uprights, which I am keen not to use as I think they are not ideal. I already have
cortina uprights (I race in autograss and have a mid-engined Vauxhall 2.0 xe powered car with these uprights) and wish to use them. If it comes to it
I will make my own wishbones but does anybody know if there are any companies making them?
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Dave Ashurst
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 01:11 PM |
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Luego used to (weblinks on this page!).
When you find some it might even be worth getting a spare set whilst you're at it if they're getting rare.
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Tangerine Scream
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 01:15 PM |
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AFAIK Stuart Taylor still make them as that's what I have on my car.
Cheers
Steve
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chrisg
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 01:15 PM |
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MK still make the wishbones (If you ask nicely!)
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 01:23 PM |
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cheers folks, that was quick!
I am thinking along the lines of using Stuart Taylor stuff so I was hoping you'd say they still do the wishbones to suit the cortina uprights.
It was just that any references on thier site to finished cars mention sierra uprights.
Cheers.
PS am I right in thinking the main three "westfield" alternatives where I can buy most of the main bits are MK, Stuart Taylor and Luego?
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200mph
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 01:29 PM |
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and GTS, hear a lot of good things about darren.
www.gtstuning.co.uk
Mark
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 01:43 PM |
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hmmmmmm, does look nicely engineered! More decisions, as I do like the de-dion rear as well. I was going live axle but now...........
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200mph
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 02:11 PM |
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I have a set of wishbones, front upper and lower.. Need to make sure that they are for cortina tho.
Also, in the for sale section there were two sets, but I think they may have gone.
Lemmie know if yer interested mate!
Mark
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/3/04 at 06:26 PM |
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MK is a better design than the book design
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PioneerX
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 09:57 AM |
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I have a set of GTS wishbones for the Cortina uprights, I have to say cracking quaility & look really good too. I recommend them.
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dozracing
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 07:34 PM |
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Hi,
We at GTS, still make them to suit the Cortina, and they can even have our newly developed camber adjsuter system in if you wish.
We make them in flat oval, so they look sweet and are a little more aero-dynamic, and more importantly stiffer under braking.
www.gtstuning.co.uk
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 08:22 PM |
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Darren, whats your thoughts whishbones? the main reason i wrote off a GT1 chassis last season was the strength of the wishbones, they too are made of
flat oval, trouble was they did'nt break but pulled the chassis all over, they even pulled brackets off the chassis too, this time we have built
in a (strong) weak point if you get my drift (was this the correct thing to do) to try and avoid chassis damage if i should decide to take a peek at
the scenery........are you a "susspension set up gurue" if so i would'nt mind picking your brains ???
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dozracing
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 08:30 PM |
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Hi Jon,
You are absolutely right. we have had this discussion on here before, and i got shot down in flames as usual.
Basically a 12mm bolt which is what is commonly used is so storng it'll rip the chassis to pieces, and then the wheel moves back round and kits
the chassis and bends it all up. I saw three or four locost racers do this at Lydden a few years back in the same race.
I have tried to get Caterham to change the rules for the Superlights to run smaller bolts to avoid the horrendous damage to very expensive chassis.
In F1 we design the wishbones to fall off when the are tagged so as to not damage the very expensive tubs. The tethers are supposed to keep the wheels
attached after they have been plucked off. As an idea of what size bolt would be strong enough i often use this example.
The lower outboard front wishbone joint on an F1 car is an 8mm bolt, into a Titanium upright. The top wishbone is usually only 6mm. An F1 car at full
downforce and in a corner can generate 4g acceleration, effectively making it twice as heavy as a Mondeo or four times as heavy as a Locost. When you
tag a wheel more often than not the bolt will not break but will rip itself from the upright.
8mm of steel (even pretty poor steel) is mega strong, so i think 12mm bolts are way over the top and damage is going to occur.
Designing in a weak point is a good thing. You just need to consider the loadings in normal use and in the event of a shunt and make sure its strong
enough for normal use and weak when loaded by a shunt.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 08:33 PM |
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you dont have a pair of those uprights do you ???
well if u dont ask.............
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 09:09 PM |
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I understand about weak points, but if there wasnt a weak point on Sennas car, would the suspension not have gone thro his head?
Id rather keep the wheel where it is and repair the chassis.........
atb
steve
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dozracing
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 09:36 PM |
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As no one can determine the exact cause of Sennas accident then its purely speculation.
Schumacher wouldn't have broken his leg at Silverstone if it hadn't been for an incorrect wishbone mounting. Ferrari are suspected (known
by some) to race chassis' with less material in them than that that they submit to the FIA for testing. As such the tub broke in his accident
and not the wishbone mounts, this then pierced the tub and broke his leg.
Both situation totally irrelevant to a Locost as you don't sit anywhere near the front suspension. It should though be designed in such away
that it breaks and the wheel is retain by a fixing or tether that stops the wheel assembly reaching the driver.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 09:38 PM |
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maybe the car would have stoped dead and broke his neck..........who knows.
BTW i was and still am one of Senna's number one fans, note the shirt i'm wearing at Donnington.
Another quickie, the isonblade susspension was held togethor by M8 bolts, they where too strong, hence written off.........The GT1 used M12
Another quickie, NS Dev, i have jigs for book wishbones/cortina uprights, they assume maxi btm ball joint, i'm J29M1 not to far away if you
fancy making your own.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 09:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dozracing
As no one can determine the exact cause of Sennas accident then its purely speculation.
I didnt state the cause, but the effect was a bit of suspension in the skull, which was fairly well publicised
atb
steve
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NS Dev
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| posted on 22/3/04 at 11:01 PM |
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Called Stuart Taylor m-sport this evening, going to visit in a week or so and am pretty convinced now to go that route. Interestingly when I enquired
about the uprights, they were "less than enthusiastic" about the Sierra ones, saying that the geometry with the Cortina ones is far better
anyway, which exactly supports my suspicions!! Needless to say, they can indeed do wishbones to suit the Cortina uprights.
Imterestingly, in my motorsport background there are several low cost suppliers because it is a low cost sport, and GB Engineering in Nantwich make
fabricated uprights which are light and use a Viva pattern stub axle. My only concern would be the steering arm length as these are designed foe
autograss quickracks with 1 turn lock to lock. However I am sure Geoff Berrisford would not be too bothered about changing the lengths of the arms for
a few specials.
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dozracing
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| posted on 23/3/04 at 08:04 AM |
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Don't get Stuart Taylor wishbones!!
Thats what i have on my race car and they are truely awful!! The eyelets on the inboard side are so badly pi*?ed off axis that the wishbones hardly
pivot round the bush. And as for getting the bolts through them that was almost impossible.
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M@Triton
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| posted on 23/3/04 at 08:17 AM |
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Pop down the M1 to junction16,3 miles to workshop... we do a nice line in off the shoulder oval tube upper and lower wishbones for Sierra and Cortina
upright use on Sevens.
Upper 'bone is adjustable for camber without splitting ball joint and jolly damn sexy too.
Regards
Mark
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jcduroc
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| posted on 23/3/04 at 01:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dozracing
We at GTS, still make them to suit the Cortina, and they can even have our newly developed camber adjsuter system in if you wish.
www.gtstuning.co.uk
A pity most of the PDFs in the site do not exist.
Joćo
JCM
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