turbo time
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 05:16 AM |
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Need problem solving! (steering)
Ok, I first must admit to being a huge retard. Good, now that I am done with that, let's get to the problem.
I installed/mounted my steering rack, minimized bump steer etc...
Then I was rolling the car out of the garage to re-install the engine, and realized that as I turned the steering wheel right, the wheels went
left.
Anyways, I guess the $20 swap meet racing rack that I picked up was obviously a front-steer rack, and I mounted it with my rear-steer hubs. I
CAN'T BELIEVE that I never noticed, it seems totally ridiculous. I never noticed because I never did hook up the column to the rack, when I
moved the car around, the tie-rods were just bolted in along with the rack. When I moved the car, I would just push on the wheel/tire to steer them
both. So, I never paid attention to the steering wheel rotation, still a stupid and inexcusable mistake though  .
So, what can be done?
- My brother suggested flipping the hubs around (bad idea IMO...ackerman) and, of course that means re-mounting the rack.
- My idea was to get two small encased counter-rotating gears (think roots blower) and chopping the column, one rotation in, oppositte out, problem
solved. I like this idea because it would be very simple for my application. The question I have is, any device that I could salvage something like
this from? or someplace that offers something like this neatly packaged? (something like the geared rods sold in 1 foot lenghts could work well if I
could find a good way to encase them, or perhaps weld 6" of the rod to each end of the chopped column so they overlap, lathe the end into a
smooth rod that gets held strongly by a bearing or something:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.asp?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=956&CtlgEdition=&RelatedCtlgPgs=953,954,955,956&sesnextrep=506
685081489957&ScreenWidth=1400&McMMainWidth=999&ToolsetID=ToolMultiPageNav&ToolsetAct=
-I could get a new rack from the same manufacturer, except order the rear steer version (like i said, it's a racing rack, but I don't like
this idea because they are $350+ new)
-Is there any component inside the rack I could change to reverse motion?
Much thanks to all,
Kent
[Edited on 5/3/05 by turbo time]
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shortie
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 06:35 AM |
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couldn't you just turn the rack over?
Rich.
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chrisf
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 07:02 AM |
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Yeah, it does seem like too critical of a probelm. What rack are you using? That will be key. Also, looks like you're building a middy. So, like
Shortie says, have a go at flipping the rack over. It my require some slight modification, but nothing critical.
---Chris
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Peteff
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 08:29 AM |
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Won't that make it a right hand drive rack with the spline at the other side?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 08:57 AM |
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You say it's a racing rack, so is the pinion in the centre ?
If so, flipping it is your answer so that the rack does the opposite of what it does just now.
Failing that, just spring for a new rack 
[Edited on 5/3/05 by zilspeed]
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Danozeman
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 09:17 AM |
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Id would say flip the rack over but that would make the spline the wrong side. Shell out for a new rack mate much easier..
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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viatron
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 10:02 AM |
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Rack problem
Its got to be a rack swap surely! the $350 would be eaten up with all the mods necessary to get the current one to work, and apart from anything else
this is steering we are talking about!!!!!!
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Fifer
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 10:50 AM |
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Just cross your hands on the steering wheel 
but seriously, I would go the $350 route, much less hassle
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Hellfire
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 11:11 AM |
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Of course - you could just have the hubs the wrong way around - left on right and vica versa. In which case the steering lug on the hub would be on
the back rather than the front... or am I loosing it here?
ATB
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dr-fastlane
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 11:32 AM |
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My opinion:
-buy a new rack or something that you can modefy (make it smaller to your standard, or so)
-that idea of your brother is not bad at all. The ackermann angle can become mended by moving the steering rack forward or further back. I did it on
my car and it works very well. On our factory we build large industriale verhicles and we move the steering rack also to get the Ackermann Angle 100%
right. It makes no diffrent if the rack is in front or behind the wheels. Do you have enough room for the rack?
------------------------------
I have not failed once. I have successfully found ways that will not work!
https://www.motor-forum.nl/threads/hardtail-dragstyle-project.343482/
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James
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 04:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by turbo time
- My idea was to get two small encased counter-rotating gears (think roots blower) and chopping the column, one rotation in, oppositte out, problem
solved. I like this idea because it would be very simple for my application. [Edited on 5/3/05 by turbo time]
Do you not think there's a bit of a risk here with it failing? If one of the gears slipped on it's spindle or some crap got jammed
inbetween the two you're really begging to suddenly have no steering.
If you happen to be doing 80 at the time towards a roundabout then you might come to rapidly regret this idea!
Just sell this rack and get another- it's really not worth the risk.... unless you're insurance is good!
HTH,
James
[Edited on 7/3/05 by James]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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Liam
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| posted on 7/3/05 at 04:42 PM |
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You could make a little gearbox easily enough. Just two shafts with pinions, some bearings and a housing. Could take the oppertunity to alter the
ratio in case your steering isn't quick enough.
But to be honest getting another rack is probably the best and easiest solution.
Liam
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turbo time
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| posted on 9/3/05 at 03:01 AM |
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Hey everyone, thanks for the opinions and info. To address some things...
The rack is a LHD, and I already have the steering pedals, etc. in place, otherwise I could flip it and just drive on the right side, doesn't
matter much to me, I could adapt  .
I called up a vendor for the company that makes the rack. Apparently, they stopped making that model a little while ago, the model that replaced it is
completely different (in terms of mounting) from the one that I have. So if I were swapping racks, I might as well just use one from a junkyard, as it
would be cheaper.
Today I picked up some hardware and was able to spend a half-hour before dinner in the workshop. I put this together to see how it could work:
It is sitting on a 4"x4" wood block to give you an idea of size. The gears are actually welded (then ground down) to their respective
shafts, so there won't be any chance of slippage. If I were to use it, the whole deal would have a case surrounding it, and then it would be
welded to the frame, and spliced into the steering column.
I'm not too sure though, should I use this? Are there some other perspective problems that could occor with using something like this? I
don't want to be ignorant about this, because any problem can mean big trouble for a driver.
Thanks again to everyone,
Kent
[Edited on 9/3/05 by turbo time]
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Spyderman
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| posted on 10/3/05 at 01:16 PM |
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Your solution looks simple enough to work ok.
If you were to spline the shafts instead you could make up different gear sets and adjust the steering ratio to suit conditions.
The greatest torque load on the steering shaft is when car is stationary and that is not too great, so your set up looks plenty strong enough to
me.
Good luck with it!
Terry
Spyderman
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clbarclay
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| posted on 10/3/05 at 01:52 PM |
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The only dangers with adding gearboxs like the one above is that they can increase slop/wobble in the steering (gears are only straight cut not
helical) and increased friction in the steering.
However yours looks well made with bronze? bushes, so the above concerns should be minimal.
As a generanl the simpler you can keep the steering the better, less chance of drag or play, make sure any items like the above gearbox is well made
and not bodged together.
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Peteff
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| posted on 10/3/05 at 02:22 PM |
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Make sure it's securely fastened down as well. Look at the rack mounts and check the movement there and you'll see how much torque it has
to stand. Rorty put up some pictures of a similar device but for ratio adjustment so it sounds like a viable proposition.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 10/3/05 at 02:37 PM |
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If you look through an American dirt oval track racing magazine, you will see lots of adds for "steering quickeners" that look similar
Cheers
Fred WB
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