Barker
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 posted on 2/5/03 at 07:20 AM |
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alternative steering
Anyone used different steering racks - ie. ones that go behind the front axle line - swaping the hubs from right to left -
I appreciate it will knacker the castor angle but the seirra lump is too long - the body stick s out well outside the chasis
barking mad
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 2/5/03 at 10:06 AM |
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it may also put your disk calipers upside down, which will make it hard to bleed air out with nipple at the bottom - unless you turn your car upside
down.
atb
steve
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auzziejim
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| posted on 2/5/03 at 10:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
unless you turn your car upside down.
atb
steve
or unbolt the caliper!!!! or am i being stupid?
James
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dutchsuperseven
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| posted on 2/5/03 at 10:51 AM |
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Alternative steering
Why not use Escort/Fiesta or Mondeo hubs and steering-rack. You'll just have to sort the ball-joints and upper adapters(just like the sierra)
Then the Ackerman-system will work. Machine the drive-axle joints so they will hold the bearings together.
Sex, drugs and Supersevens
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Barker
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| posted on 2/5/03 at 11:01 AM |
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Sierra hubs are all in place with inserts. I can swap hubs left to right leaving the steering arm off the hub pointing backwards instaed of forwards
to use the fiesta sterring rack.
The brake calipers are the smae way up just now at front of hub rather than the rear!
I also looked in to modifiying the serria rack to turn the other way but its a real pain.
!!!!
locost beconing high cost
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StuartA
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| posted on 2/5/03 at 11:18 AM |
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Isn't there some problem with doing this as a steering rack works by pointing the wheels in slightly different directions when going round a
corner. Moving the rack (or reversing the uprights) round causes this effect to reverse and causes handling problems and major tyre wear. Seem to
recall another thread about this.
Oh hang on, just re-read the thread... that is what the Ackerman system is!!!
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kiwirex
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| posted on 5/5/03 at 09:49 PM |
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Barker Says:
> I appreciate it will knacker the castor angle but ...
Barker also says:
> Sierra hubs are all in place with inserts. I
If you've got stock arms, you'll probably end up with reverse castor, which (IMHO) would be a very bad thing indeed (as Pooh might
say)
You can correct this by moving the top pivot in the appropriate direction, but you'd have to mod your wishbones.
I think that if you correct the castor like that you'll get a bunch of really minor changes to the way the whole steering works, but
it'll still handle reasonably.
For example, when the hubs are around the right way, the end of the steering arm on the hub (what's that called) will travel smoothly
horizontally from lock to lock. When you swap the hubs and tilt it for castor, it'll move slightly vertically (highest at straight ahead).
What that'll do to the feel, I wouldn't know, but I wouldn't expect it to be noticeable.
And the old brake bleeding thing - you'll be a few degree's off, but should be manageable to bleed them.
And there could be a bunch of other things like that ...
I'd say:
Correct the castor, but the other bits would probably be okay.
- Greg H.
(need that disclaimer: not an expert)
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Liam
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| posted on 6/5/03 at 12:36 AM |
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Hello...
Dont quite get what you mean about the sierra lump being too long and why you want to do this but...oh well...
quote:
If you've got stock arms, you'll probably end up with reverse castor, which (IMHO) would be a very bad thing indeed (as Pooh might
say)
You can correct this by moving the top pivot in the appropriate direction, but you'd have to mod your wishbones.
If your wishbones are already in place and give the correct castor, then swapping the uprights/hubs from one side to the other will not change the
castor at all. The top ball joints will still be behind the lower ball joints - the ball joints haven't moved and it's their position
that determines the castor.
quote:
For example, when the hubs are around the right way, the end of the steering arm on the hub (what's that called) will travel smoothly
horizontally from lock to lock. When you swap the hubs and tilt it for castor, it'll move slightly vertically (highest at straight ahead).
What that'll do to the feel, I wouldn't know, but I wouldn't expect it to be noticeable.
With the uprights in the normal position (steering arms forwards) the standard castor will mean the steering arms do not pivot horizontally. They
will be highest at straight ahead. Swap the uprights so the arms point backwards and downwards at the straight ahead position and the arms will rise
slightly with lock. Wouldn't affect handling i'm sure.
Brake callipers wont be up-side down but rotated a little - shouldn't matter. Only thing really affected is the ackerman geometry. You might
not notice it or you could heat and bend the arms perhaps if it bothers you - dont really know to be honest.
Then you could use a fiesta or mini rack or similar - whatever is the ideal width and hence gives minimal bump steer.
If you want to use a rack designed for front steer maybe you could find a LHD one from the continent and flip it up-side-down.
Liam
[Edited on 6/5/03 by Liam]
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Barker
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| posted on 6/5/03 at 11:26 AM |
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Its really the body of the sierra steering rack is too long / wide - it sticks out well past the chasis members. The pinion gear and shaft output are
also outside or fouling the chasis rail.
IF the hubs are facing forward the steering rod end holes only just to say come behind the chaisis rail as well therefore by the time you have the
body of the steering rack the rack arms and ends arent in a straight line - I guess to corect I would have to reweld the suspension bushes
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH and move the wishbones slightly rearwards -
sounds like a cock up
pete
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Simon
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| posted on 6/5/03 at 01:11 PM |
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Barker,
Most (?) people using Sierra rack are having them shortened, then extending the tie rods accordingly.
This way you can leave uprights etc in their "design" position.
IIRC MK shortens racks for the Indy.
I shortened my own, and it's been ok for pushing car around, though will be buying another one to have professionally modded when time for the
road approaches.
Hope this of some help
ATB
Simon
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Liam
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| posted on 6/5/03 at 06:48 PM |
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Aah i see what you mean now...
A bit drastic to go modifying suspension mounts and swapping uprights - you just need a narrower steering rack like simon says (simon says - huh
huh).
Most old school locosters use a MKII escort rack (and according to a thread elswhere you can get em for 28 quid something), but it's becomming
popular among users of a Sierra donor to have the Sierra rack shortened to keep a single donor car.
Liam
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Barker
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| posted on 9/5/03 at 06:45 AM |
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Didnt know you could actauly shorten the body?
Is it the sort of thing you can do yourself?
Chop the alloy body
chop the rack
push the bushes further back?
Are the seats of the bushes in the body end not machined with a groove or shoulder to hold the bush/seal?
Pete
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paulf
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| posted on 9/5/03 at 02:56 PM |
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Looking at my standard chassis it would also put the steering rack through the front of the engine unless it could be moved back about 6 inches.
paul
quote:
Originally posted by StuartA
Isn't there some problem with doing this as a steering rack works by pointing the wheels in slightly different directions when going round a
corner. Moving the rack (or reversing the uprights) round causes this effect to reverse and causes handling problems and major tyre wear. Seem to
recall another thread about this.
Oh hang on, just re-read the thread... that is what the Ackerman system is!!!
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James
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| posted on 9/5/03 at 03:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Barker
Didnt know you could actauly shorten the body?
Is it the sort of thing you can do yourself?
Chop the alloy body
chop the rack
push the bushes further back?
Are the seats of the bushes in the body end not machined with a groove or shoulder to hold the bush/seal?
Pete
Hi Pete,
Ewan chopped the rack himself, it's on his site somewhere: http://www.geocities.com/ewanspence/
I'll probably get MK to do mine for time saving reasons.
One thing I hadn't thought until yesterday though was that (and I'd be welcome if someone confirmed this for me) you're going to
reduce you're turning circle by chopping it so that maybe worth some thought.
If all the MK users are happy with it though it can't be that bad!
HTH,
James
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