mr henderson
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 02:42 PM |
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welding to Ford uprights? or other solutions?
I'm involved in a project that will see the front end (almost) of a Mondeo in a mid-engined car. This project is not a one off, but is intended
as a prototype of a new kit.
The project will use the Mondeo front uprights complete with brakes, and the question of adding a handbrake arises.
These seem entirely suitable, and there is a version that can be used with the 24mm thick Mondeo discs. The problem is, how to fit them?
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/calipers/sva_spot.htm
Hi Spec's answer is to make up brackets. But what will these brackets be fitted to, on the upright? Might it be possible to weld additional lugs
to the upright (I would get a specialist to do this) or is there another solution?
Cost, as most times on this forum, is an issue, BTW
Thanks in anticipation
John
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trogdor
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 02:47 PM |
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well i am doing the same sort of thing with mondeo suspension for my saab 96 my plan is to leave the original calipers on the rear, obviously rebuilt
but they are meant to be pretty good and pads disks etc are cheap.
To get around the handbrake issues i will be fitting saab 900/99 front calipers to my front suspension. These models of saab had the handbrake acting
on the front. I think its the classic 900 model tho not the later 90's one.
Not sure if this is a valid answer for your problem tho.
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Echidna
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 02:49 PM |
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You will never be confident enough to weld anything to an upright because you just don't know the alloy of the upright's metal.
I would never weld anything to an unknown metal type part.
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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mr henderson
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Echidna
You will never be confident enough to weld anything to an upright because you just don't know the alloy of the upright's metal.
I would never weld anything to an unknown metal type part.
I agree that it would be very dubous, but it is possible that someone might actually know the correct procedure. A different solution would be
better, agreed
John
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mr henderson
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by trogdor
well i am doing the same sort of thing with mondeo suspension for my saab 96 my plan is to leave the original calipers on the rear, obviously rebuilt
but they are meant to be pretty good and pads disks etc are cheap.
To get around the handbrake issues i will be fitting saab 900/99 front calipers to my front suspension. These models of saab had the handbrake acting
on the front. I think its the classic 900 model tho not the later 90's one.
Not sure if this is a valid answer for your problem tho.
Such a solution, although effective, would be very much a last resort as AFAIK no Fords had handbrakes operating on the front, and I do want to avoid
having to use different bits from different cars.
John
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Humbug
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:20 PM |
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I'm not familiar with the Mondeo uprights, but are there any bolts already on them, or spare bolt holes, that you could use to fix a custom
bracket to suit the handbrake caliper?
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kipper
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:21 PM |
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hand brake
I have the same problem with the three wheeler I am planning.
I think highspec do a four pot caliper with a hand brake and I was going to try to use them.
Ihavn't spoke to Hispec as yet but the caliper looks like a m16 repacement.
I will look with interest at developments .
Regards Kipper.
Where did that go?
<<<<
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hughpinder
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:24 PM |
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If I remember correctly there was a kit car which modified the front calipers of the donor for the rear by dumping the great thick vented disks and
putting in a 10mm solid disk. Then there were 2 * 5mm plates that fitted between pads and the caliper pistons (same shape as the pads with a bit that
stuck out of the back of the caliper for the actuating mechanism) which had some spring mechanism to allow them to separate, and were basically pulled
together by the handbrake cables. This ought to be possible to recreate as you probably don't need 24mm vented disks at the back(unless
you're running on F1 tyres). It may have been on a sylva?
I hope this helps in some way!
Regards
Hugh
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mr henderson
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Humbug
I'm not familiar with the Mondeo uprights, but are there any bolts already on them, or spare bolt holes, that you could use to fix a custom
bracket to suit the handbrake caliper?
Unfortunately not
John
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MikeCapon
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:37 PM |
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There was a while ago a good 'cheat' for handbrakes on rally cars.
A pair of 6mm nuts were welded to each pad's backplate and the cable fed through them to 'operate' the handbrake. I say
'operate' because there was also a hydraulic handbrake which was what really did the work.
This was more of a cheat to get through scrutineering but perhaps it could be improved enough to work purely with the cables?
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nick205
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:49 PM |
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If you're starting with a complete Mondeo donor (with rear discs) could the rear calipers, discs and therefore handbrake mechanism be transfered
to sit on the front uprights which are now on the rear?
Depending on what you're planning for front uprights, you might even be able to complete the swap by re-using the fron brake calipers and discs
on the front of the car.
Alternatively, would a hydraulic handbrake with locking mechanism b suitable (and SVA'able)?
Or even a transmission lock of some kind?
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nick205
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:49 PM |
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If you're starting with a complete Mondeo donor (with rear discs) could the rear calipers, discs and therefore handbrake mechanism be transfered
to sit on the front uprights which are now on the rear?
Depending on what you're planning for front uprights, you might even be able to complete the swap by re-using the fron brake calipers and discs
on the front of the car.
Alternatively, would a hydraulic handbrake with locking mechanism b suitable (and SVA'able)?
Or even a transmission lock of some kind?
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mr henderson
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
If you're starting with a complete Mondeo donor (with rear discs) could the rear calipers, discs and therefore handbrake mechanism be transfered
to sit on the front uprights which are now on the rear?
Depending on what you're planning for front uprights, you might even be able to complete the swap by re-using the fron brake calipers and discs
on the front of the car.
It's surprising how few Mk 2 Mondeos have rear discs. Even some Ghias don't. All Mk3's do but then the price goes up quite a bit
unless a damaged donor can be found.
John
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nick205
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 03:59 PM |
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Never really looked that closley, but it doesn't surprise me.
Also never understood why car makers have used drums over discs for so long. Surely the complete drum set-up must cost more than a caliper and disc
to produce....?
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trogdor
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 05:15 PM |
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you can use a hydraulic handbrake but it has to be separate to the main braking system. Not sure if that means extra calipers or just lines tho.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 05:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Also never understood why car makers have used drums over discs for so long. Surely the complete drum set-up must cost more than a caliper and disc
to produce....?
Car manufacturers are happy to save fractions of a penny, so the drum setup must be cheaper than disks. I suspect the majority of the cost is in the
caliper, a slave cylinder for a drum brakes is very simple and very cheap.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 05:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeCapon
There was a while ago a good 'cheat' for handbrakes on rally cars.
A pair of 6mm nuts were welded to each pad's backplate and the cable fed through them to 'operate' the handbrake. I say
'operate' because there was also a hydraulic handbrake which was what really did the work.
This was more of a cheat to get through scrutineering but perhaps it could be improved enough to work purely with the cables?
We have successfully done this with a number of rally cars, often just by drilling the rear pad backplates.
There is no way you can tell its not the cable doing the job if you set it up right, without either dumping the rear fluid or disconnecting the
cable.
However, that's not really of help in this situation I guess (if its for a customer)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Minicooper
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:12 PM |
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The riot uses a ford fiesta front hub at the rear, the standard caliper is then replaced with a sierra rear disk handbreak caliper, it may be possible
to do something similiar perhaps, I can supply the dimensions across the sliding caliper bolt holes if you need them.
Cheers
David
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:20 PM |
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Mondeo uprights are SG cast iron ---- weld brackets for brakes to them to them only if you have a death wish.
With a Midi you have roughly a 55%-45% front rear distribution under braking --- so you need calipers larger than you normally find on the rear
of a fwd car like Mondeo or even the rwd Sierra --- I would suggest MGTF calipers which have 40 mm pistons (most medium tintops have 33mm pistons
on the rear).
At the front the don't go any bigger than Sierra calipers which have approx dia 50 mm pistons.
[Edited on 14/10/08 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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stevebubs
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| posted on 14/10/08 at 06:29 PM |
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RAther than go to the expense of adding these, I would investigate how easy it would be to mount something like a golf rear caliper to the mondeo
uprights...
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/10/08 at 06:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Never really looked that closley, but it doesn't surprise me.
Also never understood why car makers have used drums over discs for so long. Surely the complete drum set-up must cost more than a caliper and disc
to produce....?
Drum brakes at the rear give a lot less maintanance problems the than rear discs, with discs getting a decent handbrake and maintaining it in
adjustment was a headache. This why a lot of manufacturers either use a seperate drum brake within the rear disc or a completely seperate caliper
for the handbrake.
Drum brakes also have advantages in requiring lower pedal pressure for light moderate braking, on a disc drum setup this .gives a more favourable
brake bias in wet or icy conditions.
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