laptoprob
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 09:31 PM |
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Willwood/HiSpec
Hi all,
wondered if anyone can help on my brake upgrade quandry?
Im running Powerlites at present on Cortina uprights which was an upgrade from my std M16's running green stuff. If im honest i hardly felt any
difference.
Im now in the market to upgrade again.
My car has 262bhp, weighs around 590kgs and spend 80% of my time on track.
My first port of call is the Midilites with disc upgrade to possibly the vented version but have been warned they are heavy discs abd will have an
small adverse effect on brake performance.
So do i go with Midilites or are the HiSpec units any better and do i stick with solids or go vented?
My budget is 4-5 hundred quid by the way before anyone gets carried away
[Edited on 9/10/13 by laptoprob]
[Edited on 9/10/13 by laptoprob]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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mark chandler
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 09:48 PM |
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What size wheels and tyres are you running? Big wheels and tyres is a great deal more leverage on the brakes, on 13" wheels I cannot get my
brakes hot on the track no matter how hard I try so will replace the vented discs at some point.
If you just find the pedal hard change the pivot point on the pedal
[Edited on 9/10/13 by mark chandler]
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Benzo
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 09:50 PM |
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Used AP's would be my shout
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laptoprob
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 09:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
What size wheels and tyres are you running? Big wheels and tyres is a great deal more leverage on the brakes, on 13" wheels I cannot get my
brakes hot on the track no matter how hard I try so will replace the vented discs at some point.
If you just find the pedal hard change the pivot point on the pedal
[Edited on 9/10/13 by mark chandler]
Sorry should have put 15" wheels.
Pedal is fine just brakes arent man enough for any confidence at the min and if i remember right your running quite a bit less weight than i am?.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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Benzo
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 10:03 PM |
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What pads are you running now in your current calipers?
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mark chandler
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 10:08 PM |
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With me sat in it maybe 500kg, I run slicks on the track so the brakes really get hammered, still need to lose the vented discs for singles.
Mintex 1144 pads on the front and green stuff on the rear sierra calipers, You could try different pads before splashing out on a new setup.
Regards Mark
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joni
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 10:16 PM |
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raceleda
hi I went from power lights on my race car to raceleda what a difference in my eyes wildwood are crap they flex to much never had a good feel with
them
I have same uprights as you and solid disc with raceleda with hawk pads all I can say is fantastic glad I did it
I think mnr sell these callipers says that on there web site
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 10:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
What size wheels and tyres are you running? Big wheels and tyres is a great deal more leverage on the brakes, on 13" wheels I cannot get my
brakes hot on the track no matter how hard I try so will replace the vented discs at some point.
If you just find the pedal hard change the pivot point on the pedal
[Edited on 9/10/13 by mark chandler]
Most cars ive seen running 13s have large profiles tyres - ie the fairly common 205 60 13, which has the same rolling diameter as the default 195 50
15s
[Edited on 9-10-13 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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bi22le
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 11:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
What size wheels and tyres are you running? Big wheels and tyres is a great deal more leverage on the brakes, on 13" wheels I cannot get my
brakes hot on the track no matter how hard I try so will replace the vented discs at some point.
If you just find the pedal hard change the pivot point on the pedal
[Edited on 9/10/13 by mark chandler]
Sorry should have put 15" wheels.
Pedal is fine just brakes arent man enough for any confidence at the min and if i remember right your running quite a bit less weight than i am?.
I have powerlights on a, me included, 620kg car. They are beasts. Stop far shorter than anything. Its the one thing that takes me longest to get used
to after not being on track for some time, they are that good. I ragged my car for over 40mins in a single session at brands and they did not fade.
I would consider checking your setup furthet. I just dont think its the calipers. They have too much of a prooven record to be wrong.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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Davey D
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| posted on 9/10/13 at 11:20 PM |
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I run powerlites on my vortx with polymatrix pads. The stopping performance is great with no brake fade.
At the Blyton Park track I can just touch the 120mph mark round Lancaster and down the straight before having to hit the brakes hard to go around the
wiggler chicane. The brakes perform flawlessly each time
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daniel mason
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 05:53 AM |
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i run the wilwood dynalites on the radical. they are the basic radical brakes (not the upgraded floating disc type) and the braking performance is id
a different league to any 7 ive had including the caterham. ive had powerlited,hispec,ford wtc but this thing is a different animal!
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laptoprob
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 06:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzo
What pads are you running now in your current calipers?
From memory the Willwood Race pads.
quote:
hi I went from power lights on my race car to raceleda what a difference in my eyes wildwood are crap they flex to much never had a good feel
with them
I have same uprights as you and solid disc with raceleda with hawk pads all I can say is fantastic glad I did it
I think mnr sell these callipers says that on there web sitequote:
Seen loads of posts on forums about his problem too. Never thought about Raceleda, i may have a look at these cheers.
quote:
With me sat in it maybe 500kg, I run slicks on the track so the brakes really get hammered, still need to lose the vented discs for singles.
Mintex 1144 pads on the front and green stuff on the rear sierra calipers, You could try different pads before splashing out on a new setup.
Regards Markquote:
Cheers Mark, think it will have to be the solid disc. Thanks for the info, what calipers are you using?
quote:
I run powerlites on my vortx with polymatrix pads. The stopping performance is great with no brake fade.
At the Blyton Park track I can just touch the 120mph mark round Lancaster and down the straight before having to hit the brakes hard to go around the
wiggler chicane. The brakes perform flawlessly each timequote:
Blyton is always the big test for my brakes as it is small and has a big succession of corners. The polymatrix pad maybe a starting point for me here
as ive seen other people talk them up on other forums,cheers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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laptoprob
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 06:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
i run the wilwood dynalites on the radical. they are the basic radical brakes (not the upgraded floating disc type) and the braking performance is id
a different league to any 7 ive had including the caterham. ive had powerlited,hispec,ford wtc but this thing is a different animal!
cheers Dan, i know the brakes are great on your cars but again your running nearly 200kgs lighter than me so will make the difference. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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rodgling
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 07:01 AM |
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What are you trying to improve about your brakes?
I have powerlites on an 800 kg car (with me in it) and think they are v good. But I am running 1144 pads, not the Wilwood pads which everyone on here
says are poo (I've not tried them). Try pads first as a cheap/easy improvement?
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Benzo
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 07:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rodgling
What are you trying to improve about your brakes?
I have powerlites on an 800 kg car (with me in it) and think they are v good. But I am running 1144 pads, not the Wilwood pads which everyone on here
says are poo (I've not tried them). Try pads first as a cheap/easy improvement?
Agreed! Put some good pads in 1st front and rear. Mintex 1144 or ds2500's would be what I would recommend!
[Edited on 10/10/13 by Benzo]
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amalyos
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 07:23 AM |
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I run powerlites on my RGB car, and their fine. The biggest difference I made was changing the pads this season. I went over to 'Polymatrix
A' pads, very happy with them.
http://stevembuild.blogspot.com
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adithorp
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 08:18 AM |
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I'd have a bit of a read through the RGB forum before considering Hi-Specs. Several people have had problems with them. Two guys I go touring
with have had them and both had trouble with them binding.
I'd try different pads first. 1144's have been good for me in my Powerlights even on Alpine decents. Though I'm now at the point
around Blyton, where I'm only finding any more time by pushing the braking points and starting to get fade (for those that don't know it,
it's hard on brakes).
If you're getting fade though after that then you need either bigger or vented discs (or cooling ducts?). Changing calipers won't help a
lot with heat. There's not a lot of chance of going bigger on the discs under 13"s.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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mazie
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 08:30 AM |
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I run powerlites , solid discs and 1144's on a 700kg car with me in it and they are pretty awesome, never fade and the pedal feel is superb.
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rdodger
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 08:32 AM |
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I have Midilite's with 260mm vented discs. Powerlite on the back. Car is approx. 600kg. Fiat MC.
I started with smart pads. They took at least a couple of laps to work at all then were very good. Scarey on the road.
I now have 1144 all round. The pedal feels much better and the brake feel is really consistent. Fade? No chance!
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edsco
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 09:08 AM |
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I run Powerlites with Poly A pads on my race car in RGB series. I cant flaw them. The combo is very effective.
My only issue i have had this season with them was when racing on the GP circuit at Donington earlier this year. Doing the longer circuit with the
addition of two hairpns in quick succession meant i cooked the brakes big time. On talking with other racers later, it turned out everyone, or the
large majority, had experienced brake fade on the hairpins too which consisted of a large range of caliper makes.
I am running vented discs on front and still got brake fade, but I think the issue was more to do with lack of positive ducted airflow for cooling.
I was told that Poly A pads if allowed to get too low can also be susceptible to brake fade due to there not being enough pad material to absorb or
rather help dissipate the heat. However, worn pads were not the cause of my one and only specific issue.
My personal opinion Wilwoods give a good positive feel when combine with the right pads. I ran Wilwoods with Mintex pads on my Spire several years
ago and they felt numb, not particularly grippy or grabby, so swapped pads and things improved immensely.
Horzes for courses i guess.
edsco
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laptoprob
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 10:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
I'd have a bit of a read through the RGB forum before considering Hi-Specs. Several people have had problems with them. Two guys I go touring
with have had them and both had trouble with them binding.
I'd try different pads first. 1144's have been good for me in my Powerlights even on Alpine decents. Though I'm now at the point
around Blyton, where I'm only finding any more time by pushing the braking points and starting to get fade (for those that don't know it,
it's hard on brakes).
If you're getting fade though after that then you need either bigger or vented discs (or cooling ducts?). Changing calipers won't help a
lot with heat. There's not a lot of chance of going bigger on the discs under 13"s.
Will have a look Adi at the forums etc. My brakes went twice at Blyton when i was there last with you but the pads were at the end of their life etc
and yes Blyton is a pig on brakes for sure.
Im after a better brake all round really as i dont have confidence in them at present, they dont scrub speed fast enough for me. Im going to try the
Polymax A in them as im off to Oulton next Friday and now dont have the time to change the whole setup etc.
On another note my brakes have never faded at Blyton with Willwood pads in and my wheels are 15"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajlF4nWJtGA
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rodgling
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 10:20 AM |
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Hmm. Looking at this: http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl227.pdf why would anyone use any Wilwood compound other than A?
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 10:26 AM |
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I had Powerlite with solid discs and was melting the disc so went to Midlites with vented. I am running Hawk DTC30 pads which are very good but you
can use 1144s which are much better than the Willwood pads.
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adithorp
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 11:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by laptoprob
On another note my brakes have never faded at Blyton with Willwood pads in and my wheels are 15"
In never had any fade from mine with the Wilwood SmartPads during the shorttime I had them fitted either... I didn't have any usefull braking
either though!
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Davey D
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| posted on 10/10/13 at 11:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rodgling
Hmm. Looking at this: http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl227.pdf why would anyone use any Wilwood compound other than A?
Yeah its the Polymatrix A compund that i use. There came recommended to me from Andy at ABPerformance. With slicks on i can brake that hard that my
body is pressing hard into my harness straps. Loads of feel to them too. The odd time i pushed just that little too much and locked the wheels you can
feather the brakes, and re apply with full power again
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