jeffw
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 08:30 AM |
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Retrofitting ABS
In an idle moment I was wondering if anyone had fitted ABS to a kit and what parts where used. It would be interesting to see how effective it is on
a lightweight car.
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theprisioner
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 08:41 AM |
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I have never seen an autonomous after market system for sale. These things appear to be part of the factory ecu development. They can, and in my case,
be a separate ECU linked via a CAN bus to the main ECU for fault reporting via the DLC connector. My Puma had one (I think must look and see) and in
theory I could have retained it. It was never developed for a rear engine car so I never gave it a thought. It might be dangerous in my case.
Interesting thought!
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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loggyboy
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 08:45 AM |
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Dont do it! ABS is great for safety, rubbish for going fast.
Mistral Motorsport
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 09:01 AM |
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ABS systems require extensive development for individual models not to be messed with.
Bosch do make a competition only system that can be set-up by linking it to a Laptop, but they do not sell it anybody that wants it only to
approved customers.
[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 09:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Dont do it! ABS is great for safety, rubbish for going fast.
That must be why it was banned from F1 then
[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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jeffw
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 09:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Dont do it! ABS is great for safety, rubbish for going fast.
I think you'll find this isn't correct anymore. ABS is used extensively in race cars now and it is there to make them go faster....
[Edited on 14/11/13 by jeffw]
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PSpirine
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 10:27 AM |
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In my experience, modern (i.e. current model year cars) ABS and even traction control systems are pretty damn impressive.
Yes, there may be some odd situations when ABS gets confused, but if anything, on a race track, conditions are pretty easy (to predict/program/process
by the ECU), and I struggle to believe that a human can modulate better than a 4-channel system which can pulse individual wheels.
If anything, these systems allow you to apply more brake force (using PWM) to the wheels with more grip in a bend.
Without ABS, you'd be effectively braking both the inside and outside front wheel with equal force, which in my mind can't be as efficient
- you'd either end up with a locked inside wheel, or your outside tyre not making use of all the available grip.
Pavel
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loggyboy
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 10:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Dont do it! ABS is great for safety, rubbish for going fast.
I think you'll find this isn't correct anymore. ABS is used extensively in race cars now and it is there to make them go faster....
[Edited on 14/11/13 by jeffw]
As mentioned above - it can, when it designed well and specfically designed for going fast, and not as safety feature. Any retrofit system based on a
road going system (DIY or otherwise) would not make you go faster or allow brake harder.
Mistral Motorsport
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 12:58 PM |
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Ignoring the strange Girling belt toothed driven mechanical fitted to some small Fords and Fiats about 25 years back I have yet to drive a bad ABS
system and all modern Bosch systems are streets ahead of the ones fitted in the 1980s/early 1990s
Bosch motorsport ABS
[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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ashg
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 03:31 PM |
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i have done a retrofit abs system in the past. the hardest part will be working out where to mount the pump, abs rings and sensors.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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loggyboy
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 03:36 PM |
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The Clio setup is pretty rubbish, not sure if its age rather than design. But the 172 Cups that were designed for track homologation, and were sans
ABS. So Renault must have had their reasons - beside weight loss.
Mistral Motorsport
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loggyboy
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 03:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Ignoring the strange Girling belt toothed driven mechanical fitted to some small Fords and Fiats about 25 years back I have yet to drive a bad ABS
system and all modern Bosch systems are streets ahead of the ones fitted in the 1980s/early 1990s
Bosch motorsport ABS
From what ive read thats over £5000s worth - I suspect that could be spent in better places to go faster on most cars. - so unless yor competing at a
very high level, very very not locost!
Mistral Motorsport
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jeffw
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 03:56 PM |
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Might have to try and get bigger front tyres on the car instead then...
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 14/11/13 at 09:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Ignoring the strange Girling belt toothed driven mechanical fitted to some small Fords and Fiats about 25 years back I have yet to drive a bad ABS
system and all modern Bosch systems are streets ahead of the ones fitted in the 1980s/early 1990s
Bosch motorsport ABS
The system on my 53 plate ZS180 was pretty awful. If the ABS was activated by e.g. braking whilst passing over an expansion strip, it would continue
to modulate the brakes irrespective of the grip available, providing negligible stopping effort. The first time I found this I was braking fairly
lightly approaching traffic lights on on a downhill section of road and hit a metal expansion strip, which sent me sailing down the road and almost
into the back of another car. Once I learned to immediately release and re-apply if it activated then it was ok, but it's the exact opposite of
what you should normally do with ABS.
[Edited on 14/11/13 by MikeRJ]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 03:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Ignoring the strange Girling belt toothed driven mechanical fitted to some small Fords and Fiats about 25 years back I have yet to drive a bad ABS
system and all modern Bosch systems are streets ahead of the ones fitted in the 1980s/early 1990s
Bosch motorsport ABS
The system on my 53 plate ZS180 was pretty awful. If the ABS was activated by e.g. braking whilst passing over an expansion strip, it would continue
to modulate the brakes irrespective of the grip available, providing negligible stopping effort. The first time I found this I was braking fairly
lightly approaching traffic lights on on a downhill section of road and hit a metal expansion strip, which sent me sailing down the road and almost
into the back of another car. Once I learned to immediately release and re-apply if it activated then it was ok, but it's the exact opposite of
what you should normally do with ABS.
[Edited on 14/11/13 by MikeRJ]
Something far wrong -- first suspect would be a split toothed ring on the a front CV joint which can result in some very odd effects, it
usually doesnt trigger the ABS fault light. This was a common fault on the MG-Rover 45 and 25 series as they aged.
[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Slimy38
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 03:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Ignoring the strange Girling belt toothed driven mechanical fitted to some small Fords and Fiats about 25 years back I have yet to drive a bad ABS
system and all modern Bosch systems are streets ahead of the ones fitted in the 1980s/early 1990s
Bosch motorsport ABS
My brand new (at the time) 99 Mondeo would definitely beg to differ, I nearly got friendly with an Audi because it overreacted and felt like it
disabled the brakes. There was a strange aroma coming from my friend in the passenger seat as we carried on...
Every other car I've driven has been brilliant, with the ABS being almost reluctant to trigger and only triggering if I'm stupid. But that
Mondo will stick in my mind forever.
[Edited on 17/11/13 by Slimy38]
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nickm
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| posted on 17/11/13 at 08:02 PM |
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I thought the whole idea of ABS was to enable the car to be steered when in a skid so it actually releases the locked up wheels for a split second not
brake more efficiently.
Nick M
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