MattWatson
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 12:32 AM |
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H - Patern to Sequential Conversion.
Ok, This one goes out to everyone out there that thinks they can even give me a vague Idea of how this thing works:
I have found a company that claim that they have made a shifter that mechanically converts the forward motion of a sequential shift, into something
that can change the gears on a conventional H patern shift.
I want one of these things on my car, so can anyone suggest how this might be done? I have a couple idea's, but the main problem is how to get it to
shift where you want it, both horezontally and vertically, as well as NOT shift sometimes (a la 1-2 shift.)
This design just stumps me.
If anyone can give me some ideas; here is the link to the site:
http://www.racegears.com/Products/Partsjapan/Ikeya/IKEYA-Sequencial%20Shifter3.htm
Any help would be apreciated.
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Viper
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 01:14 AM |
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Totaly beyond me mate
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Liam
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 01:58 AM |
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A real sequential shift has a kind of rotating drum thingy with grooves on it. When you move the lever ytou rotate the drum and the grooves move the
dogs around.
This thing must hwork in a similar way but I can only see the grooved drum being able to control left/right movement. So it must drive another drum
(or similar mechanism) at 90 degrees to the left/right drum to control fowrards/backwards motion.
Pretty clever and must be highly customised to each individual gearbox model so that it never fumbles a gear change. I can only assume you still have
to use the clutch, but it's one step up from a quick shift. I think I want one.
Liam
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kingr
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 01:59 AM |
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Hmmmm, welllllllll. If I were going to do it, I think I would use the forward and rear motion of the seq shift to twist a drum with a couple of
grooves on it, each groove controlling either forwards/back or left/right and then use a cable mechanism to control the real gear lever. It would be a
nightmare to implement and would probably be gloriously unreliable.
Haven't read the web page though, so I might say different once I have.
Kingr
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kingr
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 02:01 AM |
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Damn you Liam, why do you always beat me to the post when I'm trying to be clever  !!
Even at this time of night.
Kingr
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Liam
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 02:05 AM |
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Hmmm...
150,000 yen = 780 quid. Not massively bad, but the fact remains that my hands can probably shift through my syncro box as fast as the box wants me
to. Probably worth it if you have a dog box...
NIghty night
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Liam
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 02:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kingr
Damn you Liam, why do you always beat me to the post when I'm trying to be clever !!
Bwah hah
Beer™ - it makes your brain fast.
Mmmmmmmm... eight bowls of eat-as-much-as-you-want chinese.
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MattWatson
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 06:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Liam
Hmmm...
150,000 yen = 780 quid. Not massively bad, but the fact remains that my hands can probably shift through my syncro box as fast as the box wants me
to. Probably worth it if you have a dog box...
NIghty night
What? they say they ship to the states total 200$.
Explain to my simple mind what a quid is? I thought that a pound was somthing like 2.143... dollars us?
I seem to remember people using quid interchangably?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 10:16 AM |
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when i had "H" style box in mine i made a crude pnuematic shifter with 2 small clyinders, soda stream bottle and a few 5/2 valves, it worked but
need'd a lot of tidying up, but button push gear change's where possible, 4 speed box mind, would'nt fancy trying it on a 5, reverse was still
manual too. IMO it would have to be pretty dam good to beat the normal shift, and would it grab the gear every time ?? having said that it makes
driving much more fun, tapping the lever forward int corners is much more fun than line dancing across an H style..........
but then for little more than the £700+ quoted above i got a little lump of jap ally with a 6 speed sequential box slung under it...........now there
are quick clutchless changes..........
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Liam
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 02:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MattWatsonWhat? they say they ship to the states total 200$.
Huh? Where does it say that? Just lookng on the link above it says most of them cost about 150,000 Yen. This Online
Currency Converter says 150,000 Yen is currently about £780.
Quid = slang term for pound, one of which is currently worth about $1.6. So your shifter is around $1250.
Liam
[Edited on 5/1/03 by Liam]
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johnston
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 04:37 PM |
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for that sorta doh you could probably buy a sequiantial dog box from quaife (maybe only sec hand tho)
mate of mine has made designs for a conversion for h pattern to a paddle shift but it needs to run air powered rams or hydrulic as electric ones arent
strong enough
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MattWatson
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 05:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnston
for that sorta doh you could probably buy a sequiantial dog box from quaife (maybe only sec hand tho)
mate of mine has made designs for a conversion for h pattern to a paddle shift but it needs to run air powered rams or hydrulic as electric ones arent
strong enough
Thats why I am supprised. I can find several makers of conversions that replace the shifting portion of the transmission. for around 2000.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 06:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MattWatson
quote:
Originally posted by johnston
for that sorta doh you could probably buy a sequiantial dog box from quaife (maybe only sec hand tho)
mate of mine has made designs for a conversion for h pattern to a paddle shift but it needs to run air powered rams or hydrulic as electric ones arent
strong enough
Thats why I am supprised. I can find several makers of conversions that replace the shifting portion of the transmission. for around 2000.
Much easier customer to unbolt remote from gearbox and bolt on conversion kit than to take gearbox out. Those sorts of cars are all about appearance
anyway, and I guess a sequential gear lever would have to be the ultimate bolt-on accessory
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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MattWatson
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| posted on 5/1/03 at 07:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by MattWatson
quote:
Originally posted by johnston
for that sorta doh you could probably buy a sequiantial dog box from quaife (maybe only sec hand tho)
mate of mine has made designs for a conversion for h pattern to a paddle shift but it needs to run air powered rams or hydrulic as electric ones arent
strong enough
Thats why I am supprised. I can find several makers of conversions that replace the shifting portion of the transmission. for around 2000.
Much easier customer to unbolt remote from gearbox and bolt on conversion kit than to take gearbox out. Those sorts of cars are all about appearance
anyway, and I guess a sequential gear lever would have to be the ultimate bolt-on accessory
John
I just figured out WHY it is so expensive, if you look on the pages, it says that they use it in rallying.
In non-unlimited classes they are forced to use the stock transmission, so the shifter allows you to essentially have a semi-auto, without chageover.
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philgregson
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| posted on 6/1/03 at 11:08 AM |
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OK - So this is goig to be a naive statement but:
I've looked carefully at the two sample pictures, which do not give enough info, but what you can see is that they are not particularly bulky and
probably not too complex (although probably accurately set up). There are no sign of external cable shifts and electrical bits seem to be limited to
that required for shift light.
What I'm trying to say is that there can only be a small number of mechanical parts in there.
Surely it cannot be beyond the wit of man (or locost builder) to work out how they did it - Obviously I can't but some of you are clever.
Phil
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Liam
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| posted on 6/1/03 at 07:33 PM |
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Just done a google search for Ikeya Shifter. Here's the first link - click on structure details. I'm surprised they give that much away. Might
struggle to reproduce it with a hacksaw and MIG though.
http://www.ikeya-f.co.jp/english/
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johnston
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| posted on 6/1/03 at 10:10 PM |
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quote:
In non-unlimited classes they are forced to use the stock transmission, so the shifter allows you to essentially have a semi-auto, without
chageover.
well u can have dog box's in grp n but unless rules are different outside of ireland the gearchange has to remain of standerd pattern i.e. no
changin to sequintial
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MattWatson
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| posted on 7/1/03 at 02:39 AM |
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I think I know how it works now. But It would be a HUGE problem to machine the grooves into the drum... even with a lathe.
I think my best bet for this is a phumatic microcontrolled shifter setup..... Easier and probably cheaper.
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steve m
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| posted on 7/1/03 at 03:43 AM |
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steve m
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| posted on 7/1/03 at 03:46 AM |
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guess who hit return while signing in ??
hicost, as i read thru this thread i new that somewhere you would be there
please let me into a secret ??
where does the money come from??
steve
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Jon Bradbury
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 08:42 AM |
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Not much use if you have a Ford gearbox... shame, that.
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ned
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 09:05 AM |
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A bit late I know, but from my experience there is no point in having a converter from h pattern to sequential as the actual action of changing gear
is made mechanically more complex. also this will never make shifting any quicker as it still converts back to shift the gear in h pattern style.
From experience last year of a racecar using a similar system from elite gearboxes (ex staffs) the car had nothing but problems, missing gears, not
selecting properly.
It may be a 'cool' thing to do but if you want a sequential box - go and buy a sequential box unless you want a converter one that will
most likely break!
Andrew.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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ChrisW
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 12:16 PM |
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The SMG system used on BMWs is (apparently) just a standard gearbox with a hydralic acuator. I have some .pdfs all about it (with a few pretty
pictures - especially in the german ones) which I've put here. Bit of bedtime reading!
Chris
My gaff my rules
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adampage
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 03:43 PM |
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Bit more detail
Fell upon your little discussion.
Hope this is useful. It's a website which explains the drums and how they work in a bit of detail.
http://www.takakaira.com/performance/ikeyaformula/ikeya_manual.html
Adam.
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Rorty
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| posted on 24/6/03 at 05:55 AM |
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As suggested, a sequential shift may seem like a cool proposition, but if fitted to a syncro box, would be as much use as a handbrake on a canoe. It
may be worth the effort if the box in question is a dog box. At least then full use could be made of sequential/clutchless shifting.
I thought of a much cheaper bio-electric system, but it needs improving upon.
To set it up; wire a push button on the dash/steering wheel from the battery to a condensor. Attach the live side of the condensor to the earlobe of
the passenger (wife/little brother) with lots of gaffer tape. Secure the right hand of said passenger to the gear stick, again, plenty of gaffer tape
is required here.
In operation; press the button at the desired time (a little practice can almost eliminate the inherent lag), while you operate the clutch in the time
honoured fashion.
There you have it! Cheap, simple, and the wife can't acuse you of not involving her in your hobby!
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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