W A M
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| posted on 17/8/03 at 10:41 AM |
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Cortina brakes
I am using Cortina front uprights disks and calipers in my recently constructed BEC can anyone advise of an upgrade of disks with the least
bother,financial or mechanical
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 17/8/03 at 10:51 AM |
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Hi,
A number of Locosters have used Austin Princess (Wedge) twin-pot front calipers in place of the Cortina items. Maybe one of them can supply weight
data.
MGF calipers also look good, but you need to check out the comparative offsets of this brake vs the M16.
And then let us all know.
Dick
Best of luck
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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Viper
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| posted on 17/8/03 at 11:38 AM |
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2.8i capri discs and calipers will bolt straight on they are vented...
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W A M
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| posted on 17/8/03 at 03:30 PM |
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Cortina brakes
Thanks for the advice guys need something without lots of trouble as the tina disks etc were only intended to get the thing going and are in need of
renewal,but no point in spending money on tina stuff as im sure the Capri stuff,as suggested is much better.
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Jasper
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| posted on 17/8/03 at 06:35 PM |
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If you've got the cash go for Wilwood alloy calipers, v. light and excellent controllable hard braking.
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Stu16v
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| posted on 18/8/03 at 08:21 PM |
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quote:
Thanks for the advice guys need something without lots of trouble as the tina disks etc were only intended to get the thing going and are in need of
renewal,but no point in spending money on tina stuff as im sure the Capri stuff,as suggested is much better
Are they overheating? Or do you feel you need more 'bite' from them?
[devils advocate] Why upgrade? The Cortina brakes were adequate to stop a car that weighed probably three times the kerbside weight of your car, with
the ability to carry the driver and four passengers, and tow a caravan? Your BEC *should* be getting even more air to the brakes as well so
overheating shouldnt be an issue.
The only upgrade for a BEC IMHO is keep the non-vented disks (lighter), and get some nice ali fourpots (lighter!...but a bit more expensive).
Dont just build it.....make it!
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W A M
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| posted on 18/8/03 at 08:40 PM |
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Cortina brakes
I can only assume that as suggested by STU16v tinas braking set up is capable enough if not in poor condition. However mine would be in need of new
disks and I would like to be aware of all the possibilities that you guys have offered up. Like the sound of the Wilwood jobbies,any idea of the
likely cost ? would consider new tina or 2.8i disks.(not to offend anyone and to keep the discussion going)
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Jasper
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| posted on 19/8/03 at 09:22 AM |
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£380 with new vented disks. Not cheap but v. nice and v. effective. Allows controllable hard braking, when it locks up it's easy to cadence (?)
brake.
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Viper
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| posted on 19/8/03 at 12:08 PM |
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cortina and capri calipers on an exchange basis are about £40 a pair, new discs and decent pads and decent flexi lines (goodridge. aeroquip) is all ou
need, any more is probably overkill but would look better.
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W A M
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| posted on 19/8/03 at 04:46 PM |
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Cortina brakes
Like the sound of Capri items.I must check out where to buy these, anybody got an idea?.I already have the Goodridge lines.Wish I could go out and buy
the Wilwood items but reality is calling. Does the capri disk bolt on as in the tina or is it a single piece including the bearing carrier
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ChrisW
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| posted on 19/8/03 at 04:58 PM |
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I can sort you out a set of Focus ST170 calipers brand new for £250 with pads. You'll just need to get some 300mm vented discs to go with them
(Ford sell them as spares for the ST170)
Chris
My gaff my rules
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Stu16v
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| posted on 19/8/03 at 07:00 PM |
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Brand spanking new discs for a Cortina can be bought for less than a tenner each, and a lot cheaper than vented ones at the very least. Recon calipers
will probably cost the same (IIRC the vented calipers are exactly the same, just with a spacer in the middle to give extra width). Invest in some
decent brake pads (EBC Greenstuff etc, but down to personal preference) which will probably be the biggest outlay. Bed them in properly and you
*should* have some stonking brakes.
At present I have just standard replacement Ferodo pads in my car and TBH they are fantastic, hauling my VX powered car (which is probably 'a
few' kilos heavier than your BEC) to a stop with ease. Sorry about questioning why you want to upgrade but I just dont want to see people throw
money at something for the wrong reasons. People new to the Kit scene can be alarmed by the so called 'feebleness' of the braking system
on their new car, when in reality it is just a case of getting used to the fact that the car isnt helping you apply the brakes in the form of servo
assistance. Friends that have drove my cars (Westy/Locost) have more often than not reported back by saying something along the lines of "Bloody
hell, that goes well, but the brakes are crap". I then put them in the passenger seat and give them a demo.... 
Dont just build it.....make it!
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W A M
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| posted on 20/8/03 at 06:16 PM |
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Cortina brakes
As mentioned earlier, this reality thing(wife) dictates that I must look towards tina/capri for an effective braking system.To that end I think I
should source new disks and ditch the less than effective standard type pads for the Cortina set up.Where to buy these anybody?
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ned
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| posted on 10/9/03 at 10:00 AM |
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rally design www.raldes.co.uk is a good place to try...
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Fast Westie
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| posted on 16/10/03 at 03:37 PM |
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Just three points:
1) You do not need vented disks
2) You do not need vented disks
3) See point 1
I use standard disks on my race car with Wilwood calipers and on my 680kg road car with Mintex M1144 pads. Never run out of brakes on either
The car in front is a Westfield
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dozracing
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| posted on 17/10/03 at 01:13 PM |
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Hi all,
On my wesbite www.gtstuning.co.uk i have posted drawings of several different Ford brake discs. This might be of use when you are looking at brake
upgrades.
Kind regards,
Darren
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PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/10/03 at 10:45 AM |
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Hi,
I'd just like to endorse the recommendation to get EBC greenstuff pads. They have a higher than standard co-efficient of friction (0.46 compared
with 0.35 or so for standard pads) and thus counteract the lack of servo assistance giving more bite and ultimately more retardation. Don't be
tempted to get EBC red or yellow stuff as these won't work well from cold and are only really for race applications. Try Proven Products on
http://www.provenproducts.co.uk to compare prices with Raldes.
I use greenstuff on my roadgoing Rover Vitesse turbo and at my last MOT the tester couldn't believe the braking force readings. I also use black
diamond grooved and vented discs with high temperature dot 5.1 fluid and new calipers. My braking force was 550Kg's on each front wheel which
when combined with the rear figures gave me a braking efficiency of something like 120%
With standard pads and discs I only got around 380Kg's braking force on the front.
BTW, has anyone ever considered using Metro 4-pot calipers on a Locost? These must be pretty cheap light and IIRC quite good.
Cheers,
Craig.
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Stu16v
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| posted on 18/10/03 at 05:47 PM |
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quote:
My braking force was 550Kg's on each front wheel which when combined with the rear figures gave me a braking efficiency of something like
120%
With standard pads and discs I only got around 380Kg's braking force on the front.
I doubt the increase in front readings were down to the brake pad change TBH, unless the old pads were unable to lock the front wheels in the
rollers-which is very doubtful.
But a lot of people do seem to recommend the Green Stuff pads, although I have read one or two negative reports, but these are in the minority.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/10/03 at 06:02 PM |
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Stu,
I'd have to disagree on the basis that the MOT brake test is conducted with a limited amount of brake pressure applied to the pedal
(20Kg's rings a bell but I'm not 100% sure tbh). I've never seen this measured in any way other than by feel but it was the MOT
tester who commented that the brakes were "wicked"
Also, the car felt much much better to me even though the discs and pads which were previously on the front were in excellent condition and the
calipers had been overhauled. The car brakes much more smoothly and is actually less likely to lock up the wheels now despite increased braking
forces. I'm not quite sure why this is the case but I guess it has something to do with the pads being more stable and consistent at high
temperatures. Maybe lesser pads start to change characteristics under heavy use and cause the premature lock up. (Anyone able to explain this
properly?)
To add objectivity to subjectivity, the spec for the greenstuff pads gives a co-efficient of friction of 0.46 as I mentined above which is much higher
(30% or so IIRC) than a spec I saw at the time for some standard Ferodo pads.
HTH,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/10/03 at 06:06 PM |
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Stu,
On your second point, I have seen similar isolated complaints but I know that at least one of these was due to someone fitting the pads wrongly. The
pads weren't seated correctly due to the piston not being turned to the correct orientation and one of them was not touching the disc squarely.
I've also heard complaints where "boy racers" have gone for red or even yellow stuff because they must be better...right! (Wrong,
not for road use anyway. Not even fast road use.)
Cheers,
Craig.
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Stu16v
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| posted on 19/10/03 at 09:37 AM |
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Fair comments mate, but the MOT brake test *should* be a measurement of the maximum braking effort (usually 'lock-up' on front axle)
coupled with other test procedures for checking for excessive brake judder, brake bind etc, and unless the tester has some form of guage to apply the
same pressure on the brakes with and without Greenstuff, an MOT test comparision is meaningless really . What does matter is 'real world',
which you were obviously also impressed with....
Cheers, Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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craig1410
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| posted on 19/10/03 at 04:58 PM |
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Stu,
I agree that usually the tyres start to skid during MOT's but as I said, with these discs/pads the point where skidding begins seems to require
more braking force. Anyway, you are correct that real world is more important.
My main point in all this is that if you have brakes which lack "bite" perhaps due to the lack of servo assistance, then switching to
greentuff is a good way to get at least some of the bite back. I'd rather see people do that rather than implement a servo which is not
necessary on such a light vehicle. Even vented discs can be made unnecessary as has been said and with high temperature dot 5.1 fluid and high
temperature pads such as the greenstuff then brake fade shouldn't happen even in extreme use.
Cheers,
Craig.
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200mph
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| posted on 19/10/03 at 05:10 PM |
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I added grooved discs and uprated red dot pads on my fiesta, and can thoroughly recommend them. All I would recommend is that guys with uprated pads
remember that when starting their cars, as first time the middle pedal is used, it can take an age to stop.......BANG!
Brakes are the last thing on my mind though, gotta get it started first
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craig1410
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| posted on 19/10/03 at 05:52 PM |
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9904169,
That's the beauty of the greenstuff pads, they are designed to work from cold. In fact they work better than standard pads even from cold due to
the higher co-efficient of friction.
Cheers,
Craig.
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200mph
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| posted on 19/10/03 at 07:57 PM |
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right..didnt know that. Just thought they were the same, you know need to warm them up. Will get them for my car seeing as everyone rates them.
Mark
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