britishtrident
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| posted on 1/2/05 at 12:05 PM |
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From memory the drawing is wrong the angular allowance for caster is built into the trunnion.
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pgpsmith
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| posted on 1/2/05 at 02:08 PM |
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Thank you britishtrident. That will make things much easier. I'll have a look when I go junking.
Mr Pete
Live and don't learn, that's us. - Calvin and Hobbes
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britishtrident
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| posted on 1/2/05 at 03:44 PM |
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Take a look at the way the lower and upper arms were done on the Elan/Europa/+2S/Seven S4/early Espirit
Very simple although shap edge would cause SVa problems.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 1/2/05 at 06:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Don't forget that you can buy super light fabricated uprights (designed for autograssing as an alternative to Viva/Cortina ones) from GB
Engineering, which take viva hubs, or use GB's own alloy hubs which can then take Ford wheels. The uprights can have either tapers or parallel
holes top and bottom for rose joints or balljoints.
I can't remember the price, think it was £250 for a pair of uprights, with alloy hubs, bearings and brake discs.
phone number as promised is 01270 841081.
Geoffs uprights are fabricated from steel, and are designed for grassers, so are built for light cars, hence they are very light. He also makes the
alloy hubs for them himself and, for autograss use, normally equips them with bike brake discs and calipers for extra lightness, but you can use
normal car discs instead no problem. The price is a bargain, as his stuff it VERY nicely made in my experience.
I bought a quickrack for my grasser from him, which he charges £150 for. Sounds a lot until you realise he fabricates the casing from scratch, cuts
the rack himself, cuts the pinion, zinc plates/dichromate passivates everything, machines all the extra bits and pieces and assembles it with decent
quality bearings and phosphor bronze bushes..................no off the shelf rack is available with 1 turn lock to lock, so £150 is pretty fair.
He also makes driveshafts to any length to suit sierra/granada CV's, for £70 a piece, heat treated, machined from something bl00dy strong
(can't remember what the steel grade was that he told me) and rolled splines. They are used on cars with 400+ hp and locked diffs with no
problems, and he does gundrilled shafts too for really torquey engines!
Also does pedal sets, engine to gearbox adaptors etc etc etc etc.
He is a toolmaker primarily, but loves grassing and automotive stuff in general, and he has the latest in 3d, 5 axis Co-Ordinate measuring machines
for "reverse-engineering" work!!
The reason he is not well known outside grassing is that he doesn't advertise or have a website, and is always busy
anyway.....................good work speaks for itself!
[Edited on 1/2/05 by NS Dev]
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grantmac
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 03:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kiwirex
Only the very early stellars.
Even then they changed the suspension to McPherson strut early on, with the original body shape.
I think finding an early stellar will be about as easy as finding a whole cortina...
Good luck though.
- Greg H
Any idea what years these would be?
Grant
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kiwirex
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 08:52 AM |
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Just guessing here, but I'd be saying mid 80's
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Peteff
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 10:59 AM |
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I read about someone in Canada buying a set of Hyundai front uprights cheaply from a main dealer as obsolete old stock. Admitted it was a few years
ago but it's worth a look. It said they only used them from the first edition till 1986 when they swapped to McPherson struts
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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nick baker
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 11:50 AM |
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Home-built uprights
Does anyone have any pictures or examples of "non-factory" uprights?
I'm looking for inspiration as I rekon that Fiesta ones are going to be a bit too heavy for me.....
I have the ability to machine/weld pretty-much anything here....
cheers,
N 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 12:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick baker
Does anyone have any pictures or examples of "non-factory" uprights?
I'm looking for inspiration as I rekon that Fiesta ones are going to be a bit too heavy for me.....
I have the ability to machine/weld pretty-much anything here....
cheers,
Volvo 144 uprights have been used in the past --- You come from the right place here in the UK they were once very common among the chattering
classes --- only 240 seem to have survived.
SAAB 90/99/900 is another possible remove the inner parts of the CV joint and use it as a live stub axle.
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nick baker
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 01:08 PM |
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Thanks Trident... Volvos litter the scrapyards, and Amazons seem to outnumber fiestas on the roads here...
So... the 144 upright is light?
I'm looking for identical uprights that could be used at the front and the rear (drive+adjustable toe-in/out)
Ideally I'd have aluminium ones, but they seem few and far between...
Cheers,
N
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nick baker
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 01:34 PM |
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Good Website for sneak preview or volvo/saab donor bits
http://www.saabtuning.cz/volvo/dily1.htm
the Text at the top is fairly close to anglo-Saxon, and the links for car makes are numerical.. and it seems to be taken from and english document....
so fear not!!
Either way... nice exploded diagrams from every car's boingy bits.
Enjoy.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 01:44 PM |
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Using fwd uprights on the rear really isn't as good a solution as it might seem -- the bump steer problems tend be difficult to solve. Bump
steer on the rear of a rwd is worse than the front --- get toe-out on an outside rear wheel and the handling will be really bad.
[Edited on 2/2/05 by britishtrident]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 2/2/05 at 02:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick baker
Thanks Trident... Volvos litter the scrapyards, and Amazons seem to outnumber fiestas on the roads here...
So... the 144 upright is light?
I'm looking for identical uprights that could be used at the front and the rear (drive+adjustable toe-in/out)
Ideally I'd have aluminium ones, but they seem few and far between...
Cheers,
N
No part on the 144 is light but they are at least as suitable as the Cortina parts.
Aluminium version of the Cortina stub axle and hub can be bought off the shelf at a price., but the bigest single weight saving would fitting light
alloy calipers.
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nick baker
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| posted on 3/2/05 at 09:36 AM |
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Bump-Steer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about a toe in/out reaction to teh compression of the suspension as you hit a bump...
right?
Suerly this wouldn't occur IF the suspension Geometry (and "steering link" arm replacment where correctly positioned... (thus
creating Zero steering effect throughout all suspension travel....)
Looks like I might end up designing my own uprights.
I was JUST about to suggest trailing rear arms instead, but read somone's question about TR6 rear arms...  This forum really IS the most
useful thing I've ever read regarding car design.
Thanks!! 
N
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britishtrident
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| posted on 3/2/05 at 10:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick baker
Bump-Steer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about a toe in/out reaction to teh compression of the suspension as you hit a bump...
right?
Suerly this wouldn't occur IF the suspension Geometry (and "steering link" arm replacment where correctly positioned... (thus
creating Zero steering effect throughout all suspension travel....)
Looks like I might end up designing my own uprights.
I was JUST about to suggest trailing rear arms instead, but read somone's question about TR6 rear arms... This forum really IS the most
useful thing I've ever read regarding car design.
Thanks!!
N
The problem is getting it in the correct position and getting the length right. I have seen some really bad attempts at this. I am not a big fan of
A arm double wishbones the rear as I don't think they handle the torque reactions well. However on the Locost it isn't possible to use
long fore-aft links as on a 1960-70s style single seater so it is either MK style double wishbone or de Dion; my choice would be de Dion.
[Edited on 3/2/05 by britishtrident]
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Noodle
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| posted on 3/2/05 at 02:41 PM |
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As I recall, Rorty designs and fabricates his own uprights for his off-roader thingies.
Perhaps the man himself could come forward give some more info.
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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nick baker
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| posted on 3/2/05 at 02:49 PM |
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Cheers Trident
If that's the main reason against it, then I'm happy.
I have ProE here and am happy to sit and model suspension movements all day long.
IF you have your kingpin / center point geometry right, then in theory you can put all the power in the world through a double-A system without any
force accurring on your track rods.
http://www.ihpva.org/com/PracticalInnovations/weld.html#Trike%20Steering%20Geometry
Chapter 3 here goes some way to describe it.
Anyway... you got me thinking enough for me to be wanting to make my own rear uprights. so it's not an issue
Thanks again!!
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Rorty
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| posted on 4/2/05 at 05:09 AM |
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I would agree with britishtrident; FWD uprights on the rear can indeed be problematical (unless you can bolt or weld the things solid).
I'm working on a project for someone in the US at present and this is one of the areas causing hassles.
In theory, if you could make the tie rods the exact same length as the two wishbones and mount the pivots so they fall equidistant between the sides
of an imaginary parallelogram, then it would work perfectly.
In reality, this is an impossibility due to the unequal lengths of most modern double wishbone set-ups. Also, the outer tie rod end is usually away on
it's own somewhere, though a bolt on extension could realign it I suppose.
An easier way out might be be to use a front strut, in which case making a parallelogram with the tie rod wouldn't be as big a headache.
Fabricating uprights is extremely simple (assuming you can weld). It offers the widest possible design variations to help make it work.
Casting uprights or making them from billet is also well within the means of anyone who can draw and wield a saw, but for one-offs, the machining
costs usually result in them being more expensive than simple fabricated uprights.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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krlthms
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| posted on 4/2/05 at 05:40 AM |
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Rorty,
This kind of problematical?
 
Rescued attachment 14nug.hurricane.583.jpg
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Rorty
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| posted on 4/2/05 at 05:46 AM |
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Is that for real? It looks like it may actually have been snapped when in motion. Extreme 4 wheel steering?
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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krlthms
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| posted on 4/2/05 at 06:15 AM |
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Yes Sir,
The Jeep Hurricane concept was shown in the Deroit auto show recently. The idea is that when your average suburban mom drops little Johnney off for
the soccer practice, she would be able to use the fully independent four wheel steering to park in a tight spot (FFS, they have problems steering ONE
set of wheels!).
Makes you wonder what fevered mind dreamt this one up (it costs ~ 1million $ to build a prototype; around 6k$ to make a single wheel rim); and what
idiot signed off on it.
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nick baker
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| posted on 4/2/05 at 12:00 PM |
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Think of the parking advantages for the average soccer-run-mum though.... Drive straight into the place, and ... erm.... rotate through 90° for
perfect parking.
Excellent!! :O) the gearbox arrangment must be seriously messy though. I read an article about it... I think it has TWIN 300BHP V8's or
something ridiculous....
*search search*
yeah... twin 5.7 litre v8's.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/3599/
That tranny's a headache!!!
Edited to make it appear as though I can spell.
[Edited on 4/2/05 by nick baker]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 4/2/05 at 04:03 PM |
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One problem with double arm is down to torque reactions even a little compliance at the inner pivots can cause the top balljoint to move forward and
the lower ball joint to move backwards under braking causing windup throwing the whole geometry out. This why very few single seater formula cars
used A arm double wishbones on the rear untill ground effect aerodynamics came to fore in the late 70s.
Of course this also happens at the front as few Mk owners have remarked on but at the front double A arm is the only show in town at least for a
Locost style car.
[Edited on 4/2/05 by britishtrident]
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