zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 04:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
2 seperate engines driving opposing ends of a car is a nightmare. I would NEVER consider it.
It is an engineering BODGE of the very highest order. Great at the pub, and in a straight line, totally and utterly useless for anything else.
Hhmmmm.....is that why z cars have done it with a ultima??
Two 'busa turbo's, one driving front, one driving rear.
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 04:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
there is an article in next months ppc about twin engined kits .to get back to original thread i thought that the idea was to use two bike engines one
driving the front one driving the rear, iirc volkswagen did something with a sirroco very early eighties. dont think it was a success though. twin
engined 4wd with torque split front to rear (deep pockets reqiured)
PPC????
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froggy
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 05:13 PM |
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practical performance car
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 05:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
practical performance car
ooohhhhh!!! 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 06:20 PM |
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Twin engined cars have a history of almost a century of dismal failure. , Every 30 years or so someone thinks they have invented it for the first
time. So much is wrong with the whole concept that anyone who builds such a vehicle deserves all the trouble it gives them.
Cyclic theory of history --- don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 06:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zzrpowerd-locost
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
2 seperate engines driving opposing ends of a car is a nightmare. I would NEVER consider it.
It is an engineering BODGE of the very highest order. Great at the pub, and in a straight line, totally and utterly useless for anything else.
Hhmmmm.....is that why z cars have done it with a ultima??
Two 'busa turbo's, one driving front, one driving rear.
Correct!!!
I normally have a lot of time for Mr Allanson, but I think that project was a BIG mistake! (and I don't know, but I wonder whether he is
thinking the same!!) You may know more about it than me, but it was certainly done outside of the Ultima "factory" approval! (my mate runs
Ultima)
Time will tell whether they can take the record off the factory car, but it is interesting to see that apparently it was "complete" at
this years autosport show in January, but has still not set any records?????????????????
If it does set straight line records, then so what, get it on a track and set a quicker lap than a "factory" car with its nice simple
single 640hp v8. Drag cars are fast in a straight line, if you want to do that then build one!
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froggy
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 07:00 PM |
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the words FRAGILE and HAND GRENADE spring to mind, whoever is paying for this car must have a sense of humour.cars like these never deliver what
they promise and cost so much noone will ever admit it either, bit like a 500 bhp cossie sierra great on paper not much fun to drive
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 07:11 PM |
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Quite right
EXACTLY as you say, 500hp cossies are great to talk about at the pub, but in reality are hopelessly frustrating to drive. (well, I have not driven one
with 500hp, but 400 was bad enough!!!)
The big virtues of the Ultima, are despite it's appearance etc, it is actually pretty simple, so less to go wrong, and it is brutally fast, yet
reasonably (ok, not VERY!) practical.
We certainly had no real practicality issues taking the factory demo car to Le Mans this year, including tent and sleeping bags and luggage etc. The
car was very driveable, not as good in that manner as the previous lower powered demo cars, but then this does have vast amounts of power and is still
only carburettored!
I'll believe the turbo busa one when I see it cover 8-10,000 miles over 3 years or so and how many times it breaks etc.
On the way to Le Mans we stopped in a layby for some "frites" and another Ultima pulled up. I can't recall the owner's name,
but it was Ford V8 powered, only a mild engine, but it had covered 75,000 miles since he built it, and is used as his only car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It did look "tired" but not many kit cars are used as daily drivers and cover 75,000 miles in the space of a few years and do it
reasonably reliably!!
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jono_misfit
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 07:32 PM |
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If you stick a engine in the front do you not end up with the problems you get with a normal FWD. Ie a heavy engine up front turning the front wheels?
Even if its a bike engine it must still weigh 70 - 80Kg with box. Lighter than a cars but still a big mass to consider. Are you thinking about putting
it infront or behing the axle line?
Dub sport did a twin engined golf about 5 years back if i remeber correctly. Was in CCC. Seem to remember Dave Walker saying it was bruttaly fast down
the straight but wasnt tooo bad in the corners all things considered.
jono
[Edited on 6/12/05 by jono_misfit]
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froggy
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| posted on 6/12/05 at 10:35 PM |
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thats the one i saw at one of ccc,s track days ,wouldnt say it was that quick it kept up with my lotus carlton well enough but i seem to remember he
f$$cked his brakes after a few laps. it made about 350Bhp and wieghed around 1200kg 
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jono_misfit
If you stick a engine in the front do you not end up with the problems you get with a normal FWD. Ie a heavy engine up front turning the front wheels?
Even if its a bike engine it must still weigh 70 - 80Kg with box. Lighter than a cars but still a big mass to consider. Are you thinking about putting
it infront or behing the axle line?
Dub sport did a twin engined golf about 5 years back if i remeber correctly. Was in CCC. Seem to remember Dave Walker saying it was bruttaly fast down
the straight but wasnt tooo bad in the corners all things considered.
jono
[Edited on 6/12/05 by jono_misfit]
The ultima has both engines in the back afaik
Apparently in also has a clever computer controlling the power output and delivery of the engines
I was thinking of a 7, both engines where they should be but one facing the rear wheels and one facing the front!
Im starting to think its going to be alot of hassle!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 01:38 PM |
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thats what allanson (z-cars) did with the 4wd tiger twin bike car that they built.
that didn't go round corners either ( glib comment but it sums it up )
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 01:39 PM |
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The clever computer in the Ultima is a Motec EMS and traction control system, which costs about the same as the whole engine in the factory demo car!
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 01:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
The clever computer in the Ultima is a Motec EMS and traction control system, which costs about the same as the whole engine in the factory demo car!
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 01:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
thats what allanson (z-cars) did with the 4wd tiger twin bike car that they built.
that didn't go round corners either ( glib comment but it sums it up )
twin engines driving rear wheels it is then!
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froggy
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 02:43 PM |
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or perhaps a v8 and a nice holiday with the money you will have saved
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 04:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by froggy
or perhaps a v8 and a nice holiday with the money you will have saved
NNoooooo.....twin bike.......two 600's
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 04:21 PM |
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You may ask why?
Cheap to source, more power than one bike engine, insane exhaust note.....
I will think of more reasons
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/12/05 at 04:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zzrpowerd-locost
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
thats what allanson (z-cars) did with the 4wd tiger twin bike car that they built.
that didn't go round corners either ( glib comment but it sums it up )
twin engines driving rear wheels it is then!
Have to say that CAN be an interesting format, but it needs to be mid engined (twin mid engined!) to get the weight over the driving wheels.
Allanson also built a twin engine RWD westfield before the 4wd twin engine tiger. The westy lacked traction in a very severe way!!
Twin transverse mid engined bike engine layout is promising though and easy to do with chain drives onto a common shaft with cv's each
end......basically a twin side by side engined Westfield XTR or Radical........now that would be much more interesting.......it has been done before
but there aren't many around!
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