bigfoot4616
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:23 PM |
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doesnt matter that he let him back past, he still gained an advantage which he then used to pass him again. without the shortcut he wouldn't of
been that close.
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GeorgeM
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:27 PM |
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the rules say yield the place - HE DID THAT
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Benzine
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bigfoot4616
doesnt matter that he let him back past, he still gained an advantage which he then used to pass him again. without the shortcut he wouldn't of
been that close.
useful link relating to your post
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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darrens
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
He was forced to leave the track because he attempted a move that was not on. Kimi defended the corner correctly, so Lewis was the master of his own
destiny there! I'm raging at that decision because I'm sure he would have taken Kimi later in the race at a more suitable point.
Highlights his inexperience!
The debate on here surrounds whether or not Lewis yielded. Personally, I don't think he did. He remained pretty much abreast of the Ferrari
and it appears that Kimi got a slightly better drive putting him marginally ahead.
My understanding is that the telemetry supports this. The early indication from the stewards investigation is that Lewis hit the gas pedal and went
for a drag race against Kimi.
Kimi hit a patch of damp mid-way down the straight and went into a wobble - Lewis braked to avoid him and ducked inside ... this is the only point
where it could be argued that Lewis gave up the place.
Point is - he never gave up the place. He was forced into the move and then turned it into an overtake.
That's how it looked to me... and I'll say it again - I'm a Macca fan!
We can debate it all we like as to how we all individually saw it - only the telemetry of either car can give an entirely accurate account of what
actually happened. The stewards have looked at this and made their decision.... end of!
I find the decision to punish Heikki far more bizarre - we see incidents like that week in week out without any penalties being thrown about!
I think your on a diff planet!!!!
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:36 PM |
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racing applies to people on the track , not off it , being alongside kimi in the corner off the racing line was a bigger mistake , he wasnt even on
the racing line , kimi didnt have to move over at all , thats inexperience , he should have waited a bit longer to make his move , schumacher would
have taken him off properly !!!.
it appears that he should have yielded earlier , waiting until the start finish line for about a 1/4 car length really isnt yielding .
steve rider was doing his best to drag the sport further in by saying ferrari had appealed it , it was completely the race stewards who have control
of this .
hamilton still leads the championship by the way !!
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bigfoot4616
doesnt matter that he let him back past, he still gained an advantage which he then used to pass him again. without the shortcut he wouldn't of
been that close.
nonsense, he was essentially past him til kimi closed the door. He had pulled himself into the slip stream approaching the chicane and then out braked
kimi. Sure enough he didnt quite make the pass stick, but he was on him and indeed slipping him on the approach. Seeing as lewis apparently didnt lift
but somehow still managed to loose his 'unfair advantage', i cant see how he infact had an advantage at all? Reality is that rather than
coming fully off the throttle, he eased off to avoid dropping too far back, then floored it once behind kimi.
At least next time he'll know to ram the mother ****** and be done with it. Needs to take a leaf from montoya's pipe.
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:55 PM |
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Everyone seems to be on the subject of did or did not hamilton ............. . As a thought and being so close to the line, it would be interesting
to see how much Kimi dragged his feet in order to try and drop Hamilton in it by the line.
If you see what I mean. This would also explain why hamilton passed him so easily at the end of the straight.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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skodaman
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 11:38 PM |
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Disgusting decision. It's like they don't want people to race each other. Best race for years and they spoil it with anti-Maclaren
politics. Kimi binned it all on his own anyway. Whenever there's a decision to be made it's always in favour of Ferrari. Even
Kovalainnen's penalty wasn't really fair it was just a racing incident. Dumb move yes but nothing dirty about it.
Anyway my order for a new Enzo is cancelled. Must do more work on the Locost instead. 
Skodaman
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skodaman
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 11:38 PM |
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Disgusting decision. It's like they don't want people to race each other. Best race for years and they spoil it with anti-Maclaren
politics. Kimi binned it all on his own anyway. Whenever there's a decision to be made it's always in favour of Ferrari. Even
Kovalainnen's penalty wasn't really fair it was just a racing incident. Dumb move yes but nothing dirty about it.
Anyway my order for a new Enzo is cancelled. Must do more work on the Locost instead.
Skodaman
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skydivepaul
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 02:11 AM |
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best race of the season so far and the FIA go and F**k up the decision.
perhaps as someone else mentioned on here it would be better for all involved to drive red cars with black horses painted on them.
I too am cancelling my order for my F430
bollox to them
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charlierevell
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 08:29 AM |
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Have I missed the obvious point in here that hamilton HAD to have given him the place back because he backed off and took him on the other side!
He was alongside out the corner, backed off got back into his slipstream, nailed it and shot up the inside, then Kimi drove into him!
Anyway, surely he should have been docked a place not 25s, there is no way he gained more enough that he would have lost 2 places.
Kimi then flipping crashed so its not like he could have won anyway!
Best 'race' rather than sunday drive of the year!
I'd love to see him win even with the penalty and shove 2 fingers up to the FIA!
Tango orange is an 'IN' colour!!
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BenB
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 08:54 AM |
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Such a load of rawlocks.
He obviously gave back the place, was going slower than Kimi when they went over the line and drove behind Kimi.
Now if slowing down and going line astern to the car infront isn't backing off I don't know what is!!!
Ferrari are just embarassed that they got whoopassed under braking and obviously the Ferrari mafia have got pictures of the head of the course @ Spa
doing something funny with a mountain goat....
Such a crock. Does anyone remember Scheuey winnings a couple of championships by driving into people and deliberately finishing their races??? Was
that penalised? Oh no, I'm sorry. I forgot, he was in one of those red cars that have special rules....
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BenB
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 09:14 AM |
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And the "he slipped streamed Kimi" excuse is pathetic.
Most of the maneover he was behind and to the side of Kimi's car which means he'll be getting blatted by the positive pressure air coming
off the bodywork of the Ferrari. He was behind the car in the stream as he swept across for at least 0.1 seconds!!!
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scootz
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 10:52 AM |
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Can I have the final say on this matter.... I'M RIGHT AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG.... NAH NAH NAH NAH...      
PS - You can't add any more to this post because I crossed my fingers when I typed it (those are the rules... apparently!).
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 05:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
nonsense, he was essentially past him til kimi closed the door. He had pulled himself into the slip stream approaching the chicane and then out braked
kimi. Sure enough he didnt quite make the pass stick, but he was on him and indeed slipping him on the approach.
being alongside or even slightly in front on the outside the pass was never going to work. the only way it would of done was if he was in front far
enough to turn in across the front of kimi.
if he had stayed on the track, with the entry line he had into the corner his exit speed would of been slow so he would of dropped back.
i dont understand why he was so impatient to get past anyway as he was so much quicker at that point he would of soon been past cleanly
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russbost
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 09:42 PM |
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"i dont understand why he was so impatient to get past anyway as he was so much quicker at that point he would of soon been past
cleanly"
Ummmmmmmm ............ could it be because he's a race driver?????
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russbost
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 10:05 PM |
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Just found this
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=TzKMyFCaZy0
excellent blow by blow analysis of the whole thing
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 8/9/08 at 10:43 PM |
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one of massa's comments
Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane
has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained.
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/9/08 at 07:36 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bigfoot4616
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
nonsense, he was essentially past him til kimi closed the door. He had pulled himself into the slip stream approaching the chicane and then out braked
kimi. Sure enough he didnt quite make the pass stick, but he was on him and indeed slipping him on the approach.
being alongside or even slightly in front on the outside the pass was never going to work. the only way it would of done was if he was in front far
enough to turn in across the front of kimi.
if he had stayed on the track, with the entry line he had into the corner his exit speed would of been slow so he would of dropped back.
i dont understand why he was so impatient to get past anyway as he was so much quicker at that point he would of soon been past cleanly
had hamilton not left the track, the switchback as the corner went left wouldve but hamilton nicely in the lead.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 9/9/08 at 03:59 PM |
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We were at SPA me and SWMBO and I can tell you it was an outstanding experience. A great race as well not withstanding the eventual stewards
intervention.
The facts are
Ferrari's are shite in the wet
Hamilton caught AND ALMOST passed coming into the bus stop (not 25 seconds behind that's for sure and in fact 25 seconds would have put Kimi at
au rouge before Hamilton was out of the pit lane)
He did overtake off the track
he did give the place back WITHOUT blocking any overtaking manouvre
Kimi did block AND brake way way to early at the end of the pit straight.
Kimi did then nudge Hamilton (no penalty??)
Kimi crashed out and was never going to finish (saw a very unhappy man walk back to the pits)
Hamilton finished first.
It didn't suit someone or more than someone in the FIA for a Mclaren or Hamilton to win.
The Ferrari fans in our stand although not happy were gracious in defeat and shook hands with many McLaren fans saying it was a great race the best in
a long time and congratulating them on a race well won.
I read a good write up in the daily mail while travelling back from Spa about how Mclaren and Hamilton have been penalized in 5 of thirteen races
this year alone. No one seems to ba able to make any sense of this latest mess.
Now how can any of you blame The FIA for changing the result. They are a great community of men of high standing and great personnal integrity who
have never been involved in any shady dealings or liasons in the past
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Alan B
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| posted on 9/9/08 at 04:16 PM |
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Interesting development....part of McLaren's appeal...
"Martin Whitmarsh added: "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi
to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'.
"If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis’s actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to
repass for a second time."
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MikeCapon
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| posted on 12/9/08 at 07:07 AM |
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Sorry if this has already been posted but here's a Ferrari cutting a chicane to pass a McLaren. With NO penalty
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 12/9/08 at 07:19 AM |
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quote:
Sorry if this has already been posted but here's a Ferrari cutting a chicane to pass a McLaren. With NO penalty
And he doesn't even give the place back.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 12/9/08 at 02:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
quote:
Sorry if this has already been posted but here's a Ferrari cutting a chicane to pass a McLaren. With NO penalty
And he doesn't even give the place back.
Hmm sure as heck looks like a legal precedent was set there.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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Benzine
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| posted on 12/9/08 at 03:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeCapon
Sorry if this has already been posted but here's a Ferrari cutting a chicane to pass a McLaren. With NO penalty
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM
What's wrong with that? The car that cuts the corner is red, I thought that was okay??
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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