twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 08:05 AM |
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Using 4x4 system from sierra?
Has anyone tried building a car with the sierra 4x4 system?
I will have a full spare set of running gear from a DOHC sierra next year and want to build a 4x4 locost.
Looking at my freinds RH2b yesterday seemed to confirm that there is enugh space ahead of the engine to build up a mounting cradel for the diff and
transfer shaft unit.
How much narrower is the front track on the avarage locost?
Cheers
TT
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James
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 08:26 AM |
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A couple have been done/are being done.
"The average Locost"???  I don't think there is such a thing! 
They're generally 1" narrower at the front.
Hope that helps,
James
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ned
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 08:35 AM |
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you'll need to mod the front suspension to fit the front driveshafts etc in, some have gone for inboard to make it easier to fit.
ben4x4shepheard rings a bell as someone onhere who's attempted it. don't know how far he is/ever got..
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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chris.russell
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 08:50 AM |
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cheffy is building a 4 x 4 locost from a sierra. He is on here occasionally and is more than willing to help where he can.
Think he has spend 2 years working on the chassis so far.....
Mines a pint
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 08:52 AM |
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i really don't think it would be a problem
having inboard at the fron t seems a good place to start,
also does having a 4x4 drivetrain impose restrictions on the wheelbase? you could have custom prop shafts i spose
i have often wanted to do this,
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twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 09:24 AM |
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Looking at the RH yesterday the diff would sit about another props length further forward.. Which could be ideal as with two props back to back I
could have some sort of center bearing..
1" Narower sounds fine, should be able to take that out in the transfer shaft from the diff to the other side.
There was one guy that had a website but it has died.. not sure what happend to the car.
I have all the parts to do the job, in fact I don;t have a correct 2wd box so I am more inclined to try the 4x4 system..
TT
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twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 09:26 AM |
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Is that 1" narrower than the escort track?
I guess it must be..
Anyone know the difference between sierra & escort track?
TT
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ned
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 09:45 AM |
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track different doesn't really matter. ther are adpaters out there to lengthen the escort rack, but if you ahve sierra running gear just use
that. you can just make the front wishbones longer to suit.
the 2 props are not alighned, one comes off the transfer box of he 4x4. try some searches onthis site, this has all been discussed before.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 10:40 AM |
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I know the 4x4 system very well, I have had 6 XR4x4's.
I think the largest hurdel will be either the front coilovers or the front prop intruding on the footwell.
TT
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James
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 10:40 AM |
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TT,
What engine are you intending using?
Cheers,
James
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twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 10:56 AM |
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The ford I4 DOHC.
TT
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James
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 11:23 AM |
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The Honda (? or is it Mazda?) desgined Duratec?
Cool- nice engine!
You'll have trouble mating the 4x4 gearbox to it won't you? Or is there a Type9 4x4 gearbox?
James
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phelpsa
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 11:26 AM |
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Type 9 4WD on 2.8 XR4x4.
Adam
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timf
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 11:27 AM |
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the i4 dohc
is the pre runner to the zetec as used in the sierra big heavy chain drivven cam lump
as fitted to later xr4x4
[Edited on 22/7/04 by timf]
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twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 03:22 PM |
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Ford engine,
MT75 either RWD or 4x4 box.
it's the same bottom end as the escort Mk5/6 RS2000 16V engine.
It's similar in weight to a Pinto but more torquey as standard and smoother.
TT
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James
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 03:40 PM |
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Of course. Sorry, thought you meant the Duratec (which IIRC is also called an I4) - something I'm considering for a future upgrade.
It doesn't use the Ford bellhousing pattern (as it's been designed by Mazda) which is why I wondered if you were gonna have problems with
the gearbox.
Anyway, probably best if I shut up now!
James
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phelpsa
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 04:07 PM |
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James, it's an easy mistake. Talking of duratecs, is there a special bellhousing to connect it to an MT75?
Adam
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NS Dev
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 04:23 PM |
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For info on the 4x4 in a seven idea, have a look at the dax rush, they have been building these with cossie turbo engines and modded sierra 4x4
running gear for many years.
The 8v I4 engine is pretty (well....very) crap, I presume you mean the 16v one from a scorpio or RS2000? Both of them are extremely heavy (more so
than the cossie lump and that's heavy) but at least the 16v is tuneable to 200hp without TOO much work. Maybe worth using the 2.3 16v one from a
late scorpio? Weighs the same but a bit bigger and you can always chuck the balancer shafts and all that gubbins away!!
(PS I run XR 4x4's on the road too by the way! (2.9 at the mo))
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twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 04:48 PM |
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The 8v I4 can't be that much heavier than the pinto.. Only going to use it as it will be surplus, although I am looking at a RS2k lump at the
moment.
The duratec is a revision of the Zetec and as such should bolt right up to the standard I4/Zetec MT(X)75 Boxs. But not the Type 9.
I have run XR4x4s on the road for some time, mainly 2.9's as the 2.0 is a bit poor for such a heavy car.
Should be OK in the Locost though, prehaps not brilliant but a starting point. And can always replace with a 2.0 Zetec which should be a bolt in
replacement.
TT
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twinturbo
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 04:49 PM |
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If only I could afford a Dax Quadra  but this build is going to have to be fairly economical..
TT
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NS Dev
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 06:55 PM |
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if the 8v engine is surplus then it would be ideal to use as a "dummy" engine to build the car around and then put a 16v in later, that
way you get the chance to shop around for the 16v engine and can crack on with the car now! I know the Dax is pricey, I certainly can't afford
one!!
The 16v version (scorpio or RS2k) of the I4 engine is a good engine but is a fair bit (memory says 20kg) heavier than the pinto with all
ancilliaries.
Having said that, the 2.3 16v and 2.0 16v I4's are getting seriously cheap now (like £500 for an entire crashed scorpio with all running gear,
obviously you'd need a flywheel as this would be auto but maybe the 8v one is the same?)
Also maybe a bit more weight on the front end is not so bad with 4wd?
Certainly an interesting project and would make a very quick point and squirt car!!!!
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 07:12 PM |
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does the front prop on a 4x4 sierra go down the drivers side? this is the main problem if it does, you either need small feet, a wider car or the
engine further forward. Plus, it has been suggested that for the extra weight it doesnt offer much of an improvement in handling. But it is certainly
a fun idea.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 22/7/04 at 07:50 PM |
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Yes, the prop is on the drivers side, did wonder about accomodating it? How did Dax do it I wonder?
It doesn't stick out much more (if any more) than the clutch release arm but I suppose this is in front of the footwell on most cars........good
question Joel!
Certainly the prop is low down (the chain stepoff drive is diagonally downwards) and to fit this gearbox to a normal 2wd sierra shell only requires a
very small mod to the floor (I have done this in the past) so you could probably put a "step" into the tunnel side on the driver's
side at the bottom, and if you look at where your feet go in a sierra anyway, the footwell is very narrow and your feet point outwards at the top to
cover the clutch and (not so much) the accelerator.
I guess it will be very very tight but not impossible to do with a bit of thought and adaptation.
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twinturbo
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| posted on 23/7/04 at 11:09 AM |
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The prop and transfer box may be the killer for the Idea.
I will build up the chassis to plan and then see what space there is. I have a 1.8 Pinto and RWD Box spare too so can run with that until I find
something better for the job.
The prop sits about 3" further out from teh bellhousing by the time it reaches teh original front diff location..
It may be possible to angle it down slightly to gain a little extra room..
TT
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quadra
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| posted on 24/7/04 at 08:44 PM |
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I have a Dax Rush Quadra and the 4x4 bit is all very tightly packed into the front of the car. Just to answer a few of your questions, the transfer
case and front prop does protrude into the drivers side of the cockpit, the front prop has a centre bearing which hangs off the side of the
bellhousing, the front driveshafts slot behind the front coilovers, the engine in a Rush sits slightly over to one side to allow more room for all of
the transmission and the Turbo (cooked feet anyone). Expect to loose about 33% of your BHP through the transmission, Dax reckon unless you have more
than 280bhp you might as well stick with 2wd and above 70 mph the 2wd car accelerates quicker, but the 4wd car launches quicker off the line and can
get its power down easier out of corners. A fun project none the less.
Mike
 
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