scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 07:18 PM |
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Live Axle... Panhard-Rod or A-Frame?
Is one 'better' than the other, or do something the other doesn't?
Cheers!!! 
It's Evolution Baby!
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 07:22 PM |
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go fancy and do a watts linkage 
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 07:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
go fancy and do a watts linkage
Is it worth the hassle???
It's Evolution Baby!
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 07:48 PM |
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Amongst other things it will affect your roll centre. I think 7's dont use the A frame due to packaging really, the seats are where the mounts
would have to be.
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 07:51 PM |
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well, panhard rod will give a slight sideways arc when the axle goes up and down. a frame wouldn't, can't think of any down side to an a
frame set up, except the space it takes up maybe, and if one wheel is pushed up, maybe some sort of twisting, but that depends on whether the bars are
all independant and have rose joints etc?
watts linkage, i don't think is any more difficult to fabricate than a panhard rod, except you need 2 axle brackets, and 2 shorter rods, and a
bracket in the centre of the chassis. (most have 2 brackets on the chassis, and 1 on the axle, but not mine )
give a much straighter up and down travel, slight arc on the extremes of the travel.
here's mine
photo should work...
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 07:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Amongst other things it will affect your roll centre. I think 7's dont use the A frame due to packaging really, the seats are where the mounts
would have to be.
Don't Caterhams and some Westies use A-frames?
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 07:57 PM |
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What's the horizontal bar on the lower left of your axle Blake?
It's Evolution Baby!
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Andy S
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:00 PM |
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How many links we talking
If a 3 link A frame v a 5 link Panhard then the 3 A frame link imparts torque loads into the axle meaning an axle needing a big heavy reinforcing
plate stuck to it. - See Caterham live axle.
A frame is simple and gives a nice low roll centre at the base of the axle casing.
Panhard to get the same RC is rather exposed + not quite symetrical loads in LH and RH roll
Watts - OK but to get a low RC one link is scraping the tarmac.
Andrew
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:02 PM |
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thats half of (or rather 1 of) the watt link bars the other is on the top right, with a swiveling thing in the middle.
the axle can't move side to side because of the bars, both pushing and pulling on the swivel at the same time, yet when the axle moves up and
down, the bars can either both push or both pull at the same time to stop the axle moving in an arc, its an awesome design works better than the
panhard rod too
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:17 PM |
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I'm being a biff (nothing new there), but I'm struggling to make sense of that photo.
It looks like the watts-links are attached to the axle only and not to the chassis at any point???
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:18 PM |
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PS - Cheers Andy!
It's Evolution Baby!
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:24 PM |
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ah, right, yeah... the swivel in the middle is black, so its hidden by the inside of the diff case slightly 
silver chassis tubes come down in a V, and the swivel is between that and the axle, and powder coated black to help hide it even more
a bit more close up
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Andy S
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:25 PM |
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Chassis connection is to that big Vee shaped member centre photo. - easy to miss
Andrew
ETA - not quick enough
[Edited on 22/12/11 by Andy S]
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:32 PM |
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I can't get my head round that (told you I was a biff!) as every watts-linkage I've seen before connects to the chassis at the end of each
link like this...
It's Evolution Baby!
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Minicooper
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:36 PM |
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The A frame on the caterham goes up and down it does not twist at all, there is a sperical joint in the housing that allow the axle to twist
Blakep82
Is the watts linkage geometry the same with this style of mounting as opposed to the more usual method of mounting?
Cheers
David
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:37 PM |
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yeah.... i know... not sure why that is, i think mine is better anyway.
mines easier to put together i think. diff covers aren't particularly strong, unless you get a special watts link one, which aren't
cheap.
don't think it works any different to the ones in your picture though
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Minicooper
The A frame on the caterham goes up and down it does not twist at all, there is a sperical joint in the housing that allow the axle to twist
Blakep82
Is the watts linkage geometry the same with this style of mounting as opposed to the more usual method of mounting?
Cheers
David
tbh, i've just put together what SHP designed, i can't see how it would be different though. its the same but the pivot is on the chassis
rather than axle.
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:45 PM |
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Ah... got it!
I was thinking that yours bolted right through and onto the diff cover too!
It's Evolution Baby!
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:48 PM |
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ha ha that would break pretty quick
it all works quite nicely, so this would be my recommendation if you can make it
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Andy S
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:06 PM |
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If going for a nice chassis pick up bracket like that I would go for a Mumford
Andrew
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:10 PM |
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Are the handling characteristics between any of the aforementioned radically superior to the others?
It's Evolution Baby!
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nick205
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 10:06 PM |
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Scootz
Have you looked at the Dax Rush rear setup?
De Dion/A frame setup which has always struck me as rather well packaged. By all accounts it handles OK too.
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 10:16 PM |
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Will check it out. Ta!
It's Evolution Baby!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 10:54 PM |
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Just to point out guys an A frame and two fore-aft links is actually 4 bar link system, although it is welded into a single assembly the
"A" frame is in spatial location terms 2 links.
The minimum number of links needed to locate an axle is 4.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 11:22 PM |
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well at least you know where to go to find dax's round here 
..and I've got that scimitar too (watts linkage as standard)
-
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