blockpower
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 08:16 PM |
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Which Super Light Wheels??
I like large wheels 18" however i'm thinking do these typically weight more than a smaller rim with a higher prilde tyre? is the extra
material of the bigger wheel about the same weight as the incrreased rubber content??
also regarding super light wheels on a budget are there any reccommendations withoutr going the carbon route??
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 08:34 PM |
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18inch rims weigh more than a 13inch with tyre. A lot more.
Ruins handling, far too much unspring weight. You couldnt possibly ruin a car more....
Ben
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loggyboy
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 08:45 PM |
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Unless the car is designed to run 18s, which if its a 7esq kit it wont be.
Mistral Motorsport
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ElmrPhD
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 09:32 PM |
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If somebody likes the look of 18" wheels and is not concerned with lap times, then what's all the fuss about?
My Vortx has 13" wheels for racing, but I hope to have some "cool" (cheaper) 15 inchers for cruisin' some day.
Do what makes you feel good.
Steve, in the NLs
The Vortx that isn't.
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Worzey
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 09:33 PM |
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I bought my car with 17" wheels. It was horrible. Now running 15" wheels and the handling is transformed.
BTW 15" are probably still too large but small diameter wont clear the rear calipers.
Less is more.
Caterham R400
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 10:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ElmrPhD
If somebody likes the look of 18" wheels and is not concerned with lap times, then what's all the fuss about?
Because big heavy wheels ruin every single aspect of a cars performance.
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 11:03 PM |
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Carbon fibre wheels on a road car ? Personally I've never seen it - they have a hard enough time on race push bikes on the road.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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Wadders
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 11:15 PM |
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18" is not large by todays standards, to achieve the look you want i would recommend fitting at least 22"
,you could perhaps save a little weight by using carbon fibre dust caps.
Al.
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Benzo
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| posted on 21/6/13 at 11:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
18" is not large by todays standards, to achieve the look you want i would recommend fitting at least 22"
,you could perhaps save a little weight by using carbon fibre dust caps.
Al.
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 12:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
18" is not large by todays standards, to achieve the look you want i would recommend fitting at least 22"
,you could perhaps save a little weight by using carbon fibre dust caps.
Al.
And fill the tyres with nitrogen instead of standard air. The difference in unsprung weight will be revolutionary
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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snapper
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 04:17 AM |
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Nitrogen is heavy
Hydrogen is the lightest gas, with big enough tyres you could achieve negative weight
You would of course have to scrap the car down when you stop or carry sandbags and a rope.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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bi22le
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 07:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Nitrogen is heavy
Hydrogen is the lightest gas, with big enough tyres you could achieve negative weight
You would of course have to scrap the car down when you stop or carry sandbags and a rope.
Ha ha.
I love the idea of popping to the shops and having to tie my car up to the rails like a dog so it doesn't float off! !
Back on topic. Are cheap 13" going to make a difference over my 14 comps?
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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ElmrPhD
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 07:57 AM |
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Blockpower (i.e. the OP),
Ignore these folks who ignore what you are after.
Put whatever diameter wheels you feel like. If making a dragster, indeed, put huge ones on the driven wheels...
Realize that trying to maintain overall diameter by using a thin strip of rubber for tires will not make the ride any more comfortable. Tires can
absorb shock much better than "shock absorbers" if there's a little profile there to play with. You see this mistake on (old, real)
Minis, where the owners replace the original diameter (10"?) with more metal and less sidewall. The result is the loss of fillings from the
driver's teeth...
Secondly, never put "on a budget" and "carbon fiber" in the same sentence. The lightest available wheels will be of the
forged variety. Again, the word "budget" must be kept distant with even forged alloy wheels. They are normally the real racing wheels.
Now we get to the cliche' of not re-inventing the wheel: your comrades have already determined that, especially in the UK, Team Dynamics make
the best bang-for-the-buck with the "Pro Race 1.2" or 1.3. Besides the engraved text along the outer rim on the 1.2 that is absent on the
1.3, I cannot find a difference between them. Oh, and the 1.2 are much more available and perhaps are not available in 13 inch, like the 1.3 are.
These are NOT forged, but are strong enough (vacuum cast/spun), nevertheless, to be very popular at the track and are the spec'd wheel for at
least the Mazda spec' series and I think more. So, these are the wheels that have been thoroughly tested, but do not cost as much as forged
wheels. Got it?
Having said that, there is a myriad of aftermarket wheels available. I have compiled the weights of many 15x7 wheels, so let me know if you want a
value for a mark that you're interested in...if 15x7 inch.
Joking aside, nitrogen has no weight saving advantage BUT it does have the advantage of being much more stable (in your tires) than common air (which
is 79% N2 anyway). Not only is it slower to leak out, but the lack of moisture and N2's characteristics mean that internal pressure will not
change so much between hot laps and cool nights.
Filling your tires with hydrogen should be illegal, if not really really stupid. "Look, it's the Hindenburg!"
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 10:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ElmrPhD
Blockpower (i.e. the OP),
Ignore these folks who ignore what you are after.
Put whatever diameter wheels you feel like. If making a dragster, indeed, put huge ones on the driven wheels...
Realize that trying to maintain overall diameter by using a thin strip of rubber for tires will not make the ride any more comfortable. Tires can
absorb shock much better than "shock absorbers" if there's a little profile there to play with. You see this mistake on (old, real)
Minis, where the owners replace the original diameter (10"?) with more metal and less sidewall. The result is the loss of fillings from the
driver's teeth...
It's not just the degradation in ride quality that big wheels bring. They also:
Degrade handling due to higher unsprung weights
Reduce straight line performance due to greater moment of inertia
Have less progressive slip characteristics at the limit
The only advantage they bring is one of aesthetics (on the right car), and if that's the only thing important to you then why drive a small
light weight sports car?
quote:
Originally posted by ElmrPhD
Joking aside, nitrogen has no weight saving advantage BUT it does have the advantage of being much more stable (in your tires) than common air (which
is 79% N2 anyway). Not only is it slower to leak out, but the lack of moisture and N2's characteristics mean that internal pressure will not
change so much between hot laps and cool nights.
It's only the lack of moisture that reduces pressure change. Nitrogen obeys the standard gas pressure laws, so pressure change over temperature
will be the same as dry air.
quote:
Originally posted by ElmrPhD
Filling your tires with hydrogen should be illegal, if not really really stupid. "Look, it's the Hindenburg!"
I'm pretty certain that Snapper was joking about using Hydrogen...
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 10:52 AM |
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One of the big problems I found was that it is very hard to find reasonably priced road tyres in sizes to suit wide, small diam rims. Hence I've
ended up specifying 17s on my project, lowestdiam I could get reasonably priced 265s
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jeffw
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 11:21 AM |
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You need 265 section tyres? What are you running 600BHP?
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 12:00 PM |
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Up to potentially 450 with 450nm, mid rear engined at this stage, then I will re-assess.  (relatively high rearward weight balance due to the
mid/rear v8)
[Edited on 22/6/13 by coyoteboy]
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blockpower
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 01:09 PM |
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Hmm interesting debate. Lot's of technical and personal opinions. I do like large wheels but if it does in fact damage ride etc then maybe a
compromise is needed.
So they have to look sexy enough, not add to much un sprung weight and clear the callipers. I'm not going to track my car just want to build
something stunning over the next year to replace my broken bike.. But I may do some hill climbs so different sets of wheels with various tyre options
to choose from. so maybe that's the best option.
Thanks for all the opinions, interesting and great that most have different thoughts
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neilparsons
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 03:16 PM |
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I have for sale 4 x 16 inch pug alloys - same stud pattern as a ford
With brand new 245 x 45 tyres
A ton
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jeffw
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| posted on 22/6/13 at 09:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Up to potentially 450 with 450nm, mid rear engined at this stage, then I will re-assess. (relatively high rearward weight balance due to the
mid/rear v8)
[Edited on 22/6/13 by coyoteboy]
You really don't need 265 section tyres for that. Avon do a 245/60 13" CR500 which would cope well or Kumho have a 235/45 13.
450Nm is much more than I have on 215/60 13" Avon ZZRs.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 23/6/13 at 01:39 AM |
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Yep, and how much are the tyres and how do you know what tyre sizes I need without knowing the expected setup? Of course you can always compromise
lower down or further up but I'd not get the brakes I need under 13s and I'm not willing to spend 250 per tyre.
The point being that if I size for 13 inch rims, I will be limited in sizes of normal tyres and things like brake performance will have to be limited,
the opposite route is to size for largest and then it is almost universally easier to adjust downwards.
[Edited on 23/6/13 by coyoteboy]
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