Nizztos
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 10:04 AM |
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Borgeson (or similar) in Europe?
I need a coupler and a couple of joints for the steering I'm building and the only mark I have found so far that has the bits I'm looking
for is Borgeson (and even they don't have the coupler I would like). These bits are expensive in themselves and having them sipped from the US
makes them cost an arm and a leg.
Does anyone know if there is a web-shop that carries them in Europe? Or if they are similar items from another manufacturer that can be had here in
Europe.
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daviep
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 10:34 AM |
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It's a bit vague what you are looking for,I think you will need to post a picture or a link to what you want?
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Nizztos
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 11:10 AM |
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You will have to excuse my garage floor "art" but I figured this would work better than a drawing.
Here in Sweden we are required to have a collapsible part in the steering. This is the part that will deform on a frontal impact rather than
"telescoping" if the driver hits the steering wheel. The only known way to get this part is to use an existing part from a car. I.e. there
are no after market parts that will work (they are all telescopic).
 
Steering
Note that the pieces in the picture are for illustration. They don't necessarily fit in that application Especially the wrench parts 
1) Steering rack goes here
2) U-joint
3) Collapsible part (This is from a Volvo 240)
4) Coupling (a part I can't find a perfect match for)
5) Shaft (double D or splined in ends for example)
6) U-joint
7) Upper steering shaft (I'm building a Westie so this is the original part from them)
8) Steering wheel goes here.
9) Another example of the collapsible part (this is from a SAAB 9000)
The parts I want to get from Borgeson are the two joints, the coupling and the shaft (5). Unfortunately there is no coupling (4) that does not require
welding if I'm using the collapsible part from the Volvo (3/4"-48 spline). So if anyone knows of a better choice for the collapsible part
I would be very grateful. The lower joint (2) I already have but It is a bit bulky and might interfere with the chassis so would probably get from
Borgeson even though it is expensive.
I can replace the coupling 4 with another U-joint but I would prefer not to.
I'm open to any other solution that would connect the steering rack (Escort Mk2) with the upper column (same splines as steering rack) and also
includes a collapsible part.
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theprisioner
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 11:32 AM |
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All you need is a good welder (if you are not already), this is a common problem that most kit cars suffer from. Rally Design and CBS are a good
source of Ford Escort etc compatible steering bits. The most common steering shaft is a 32 spline 15mm jobby. Most people buy a 300mm length and chop
off one end and weld it to something. They also supply Sierra shafts etc with similar splines. If you are welding two shafts together make sure there
is a good sleeve overlapping the two parts. Make holes (at lest two of the 8-10mm in the sleeve) and spot weld the shaft thru the sleeve. Drill the
sleeve and shaft and rivet in a a silver steel pin (called belts and braces). Never weld to anything case hardened it will fail.
Have a look at the following for some ideas generation:
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/rack-and-pinion-steering-my-rack-and.html
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/revisit-steering-coupling-very-nice.html
If you need some sleeves, splines, bits welded find a small engineering shop my facilities I am a bit far for you I guess.
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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Nizztos
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 11:49 AM |
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@theprisoner
Thanks for the reply!
Unfortunately it doesn't really help me much though. There are two problems I face.
1) finding a collapsible part that can be used for this as I don't know which ones would be suitable for welding/machining.
2) Welding and most likely also machining that part. Not something I can do.
I'm trying to work around this with the coupler but so far I have mot found a coupler that would not require welding. Although since the welding
would only be done on a solid shaft and not the collapsible part it makes things a lot easier as I can use the collapsible part I have.
I can also always fall back on a third U-joint although would prefer not to.
Last ditch is to do it the way you suggest but I would have to outsource the work and that could be really expensive here as I don't have the
connections.
To do this properly they also require that I weld the stuff twice and break the first one to show that the weld holds up (this is because you
don't know for sure what type of steel the original parts are made of). So would need two of each part. Although I doubt that they actually
enforce this if using parts they have seen in use before.
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theprisioner
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 12:27 PM |
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It sounds like your Swedish government inspecting blood suckers are worse than ours. My experience is, join a hill climb club there are oodles of
mechanically minded petrol heads in these clubs. I doubt it is different in Sweeden, (don't tell me you have no hills over there I have seen the
suckers) they will sort you out.
P.S. Adding a third U joint if frought with design problems as you also have to add a support bearing. Best avoided!
[Edited on 29/6/13 by theprisioner]
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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coozer
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 12:51 PM |
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I needed to join a Suzuki Sj steering column to a Range Rover steering box...
I built mine from a Suzuki Sj collapsible top bit and a Range rover bottom bit, only part needing fabbing was sleeve to join the two bits together.
Land rover steering UJ's are big robust things that are very cheap...
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/400110984116?var=lv&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3
.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=66&ff19=0
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Nizztos
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 01:02 PM |
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@theprisoner
Many locost builds here in Sweden actually do the three joints even though it does mean the need for the extra support.
I don't think our regulations are much worse than your. Just different. There are things that are harder for us and things that are easier.
Although I think that given a choice between the twop and not knowing all about yours I would probably pick yours.
@coozer
Is this the Suzuki one?
Not sure exactly how what you did applies to what I need as I don't fully follow what you did. If it is the above one, do you know dimension and
number of splines on each end?
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rdodger
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 01:58 PM |
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Any good?
http://www.abperformance.co.uk/products.aspx?cat=33
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coozer
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 02:02 PM |
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Thats the upper column, I cut the bottom off the Suzuki extension shaft and joined to the very bottom of the land rover shaft to keep the ends to suit
the column and steering box. That way you can keep the collapsing bit and also the landrover bottom part has along sliding part on the splines, this
aids assembly but would also collapse in a heavy impact.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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coozer
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 02:12 PM |
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Here you go, left side D section is the Suzuki extension shaft with the collapsible bit.. right hand bit is off a Range Rover Classic, spliced shaft
with UJ, long spline aids assemble to the vehicle and gives some extra collapse. The Range rover parts are very cheap compared to anywhere else
IMO.
So my system uses Suzuki upper column which has collapse built in and my new lower bit also with collapse.
Is there enough there to suit your regulations?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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theprisioner
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| posted on 29/6/13 at 04:53 PM |
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What I did: Was very simple, getting a but vague now, but here we go:
I had a Ford Puma donor car so I kept the ford upper column (complete with collapsible bit). The bottom part had a double "D" sleeve
joining it with to Puma rack interface (no good for me as the recommended rack for a J15 is a Ford Escort rack from RD). I removed the pins in the
lower part of the sleeve and grafted on a standard 15mm x 300mm x 32 splined shaft from RD. By first cutting off the lower spline (see later 100mm
bit) and ground flats on it so it just fitted the puma sleeve. I then welded the top and bottom of the sleeve taking care to ensure the whole
assembly was concentric (this is very important). I then spot welded the 8mm holes I but in the side of the sleeve (see previous post). Then I pined
it with silver steel and riveted the pins over.
I then obtained a Spherical Bearing + Housing from McGill Motor Sport and reduced the bearing with a brass sleeve as it exited the pedal box (this
could be considered overkill on my part).
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/rack-and-pinion-steering-my-rack-and.html
http://mcgillmotorsports.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=37
The link from Steering column to rack was fabricated out of the bit I cut off above and re-machined the 15mm x 32 spline on the other half.
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/rack-and-pinion-steering-my-rack-and.html
As you can see from my blog I had at least two attempts at setting the steering column position, I had to modify the chassis and pedal box to get the
right driving position.
I am lucky in that I have all the kit to make anything and love learning how to use it for any application. You need help from a fabricator friend!
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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Nizztos
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| posted on 30/6/13 at 07:48 AM |
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Thanks guys,
If anyone knows where to get Borgeson (or similar) in Europe I would still like to know. Even with fabrication I could use the joints and couplers
they sell.
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theprisioner
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| posted on 30/6/13 at 08:08 AM |
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http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/borgeson-universal
http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/showthread.php?9090-Ordering-from-SummitRacing
[Edited on 30/6/13 by theprisioner]
http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/
http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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