snakebelly
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 05:06 PM |
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Speed Awareness Course
So after over 10 years of points free driving doing over 20k a year i finally got done in london for doing 34 in a 30, cause i have been so good i was
offered the chance to attend a speed awareness course for 4 hours yesterday afternoon for the princley sum of £85 as compared to taking the 3 points
and paying a £60 fine.
Within 2 minutes of the course starting 3 delegates asked if attending a speed awareness course had any impact on your insurance, the answer was
"we will be covering that later in the afternoon" fair enough i thought.
Right at the end of the course that was frankly tedious in the extreme and delivered by 1 total muppet and another guy who actually wasnt bad and
delivered some useful info (approx 15 minutes worth out of a 4 hour course) we came to the insurance question again, the answer was:
1. Some but not all insurance companies now ask if you have attended such a course.
2. It is expected that most of those that dont soon will.
3. If asked you must disclose and if you dont your insurance is invalid
4. Some but not all insurance companies will treat the attendance of a speed awareness course the same as a minor speeding offcence, ie load your
premium as if you had 3 points.
5. See point 2 as it also applies to point 4.
So hang on a mo, i have paid £85 rather than £60, given up 4 hours of my sunday afternoon and the chances are i will still now pay a slightly higher
premium? No wonder you left that to the end of the course becuase given that info at the start i would probably have gone home put my feet up and paid
the £60 and you wouldnt have got paid by West Mercia!
The trainer did go to great lengths though to let us know that the training companies and ACPO are currently looking to take the insurance companies
to court so they cant ask, yeah right how the hell does that affect me, knowing the legal system it'll take years to get a ruling and in the
mean time how many people will have been fooled into taking and alternative that costs more than taking the points?
Discuss.....
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theduck
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 05:21 PM |
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Still not sure I agree with these courses. Makes a mockery of the rules in some ways.
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blakep82
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 05:22 PM |
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Yeah, but you haven't taken the 3 points, so you're 3 points up already.
Otherwise, don't speed! Or rather, don't get caught 
________________________
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coozer
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 05:45 PM |
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When I was dong my driver CPC it was in the same building as a driver awareness course..
Rolls up Saturday morning and the lady at the door beckons me over.. the course is in here she goes, Not me hun, that course is for criminals,
I'm doing my CPC.. Theres no CPC in here she says.. Oh yes there is I go.. so your telling me fibs, what you going to telling the crims???
That made her blush..
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Slimy38
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 06:22 PM |
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I didn't get offered the course, I got £60 and 3 points. I had to declare it on BOTH bike and car insurance policies, despite me being only in
the car at the time of offence. Thankfully it made absolutely no difference to my policies, or my wife's policy where I am a named driver.
I'm now into my third year of declarations, and the policies have only increased in line with expectations.
Of course, I have absolutely no intention of getting to six points so I'm being extra careful.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 08:21 PM |
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As above, my first points caused about £30 increase irrc, which was less than 10%. I wouldn't be to concerned as even if they did ask, how would
they know, there is no reference made on your license. The whole idea of the courses will collapse if they do start loading for It.
Mistral Motorsport
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steve m
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 08:30 PM |
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Well, i actually enjoyed the speed awareness course, as it was the first "refresher" since i passed both my car and bike tests in 1977
It was very usefull in the highway code, etc, that i doubt ANYONE who has passed their test regardless of when, could.
Steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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Davegtst
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 08:32 PM |
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I recently insured my car through Admiral and they did ask if I had attended a speed awareness course. Not sure how much extra it would have been
though as I haven't been on one (yet).
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dhutch
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 03:54 AM |
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Not done a speed awareness, but I have done a driver awareness (allegedly cut up an unmarked police car, on a roundabout in aberystwyth, lost in stop
start traffic). Amusingly, I was the only one there not to have caused an accident, with about 2/3 of them having had an ambulance out to it, and or
hospitalised themselves or someone else! However I thought it was a good cause, full day, and week day (day off work...), morning of chalk and talk,
afternoon 2 to 1 with an instructor. Not all amazing, but a good refresher five years into driving.
Dads done two speed awareness, first was one of the early ones, full day of rospa type training, again monring of chalk and talk, afternoon 2 to 1 on
the road learning tips and tricks, which he said was good.
Second one was recently, years later, half a day, and apparently not a patch on the first.
Daniel
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olimarler
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 06:21 AM |
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My x got three points phoned her insurance company to tell them. They said thank you and along the lines that it didn't really effect her
premium cause they where so common now!
Oli
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 06:41 AM |
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When I did mine they told me I didn't have to tell anyone I was ever there, so as far as insurance companies are concerned I wasn't.
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owelly
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 08:34 AM |
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I struggle to see how the whole thing works! I got nabbed doing 34 in a 30 limit and got a fixed penalty and fine. Same day, same speed but in a
different county and they got ofered the speed awareness course. So they broke the same law but got treated differently. How does that work?!
Incidentally, I recently renewed my insurance and was asked if had any motoring convictions. Insurance woman questioned this as I had declared
points on my license the previous year. To which I confirmed I did have penalty points but as I never went to court, I was necer convucted. hence, no
conviction!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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dhutch
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 09:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly..., I recently renewed my insurance and was asked if had any motoring convictions. Insurance woman
questioned this as I had declared points on my license the previous year. To which I confirmed I did have penalty points but as I never went to court,
I was necer convucted. hence, no conviction!
Interesting interpretation of the terms.
But yes, I agree that it having regional variation in how minor speeding offences are dealt with is far from ideal.
Daniel
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 09:46 AM |
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quote:
Incidentally, I recently renewed my insurance and was asked if had any motoring convictions. Insurance woman questioned this as I had declared points
on my license the previous year. To which I confirmed I did have penalty points but as I never went to court, I was necer convucted. hence, no
conviction!
Doesn't really work that way, you accept the penalty points in place of a court appearance, doesn't make them less applicable?
I have been told on numerous occasions by insurance company staff that the first 6 points make sod all difference because they're so common. I
got a CU80 (in circumstances I'd still argue if I had the spare time) and it made no difference to my premiums, thankfully.
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dhutch
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 10:20 AM |
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quote:
Doesn't really work that way, you accept the penalty points in place of a court appearance, doesn't make them less applicable?
If you have a fixed penalty notice, and associated points, I dont thing anyone is arguing you done have the points. And nobody could argue that you
had not admitted to the offence. But what owelly is getting at is that you might not have beeb CONVICTED of the offence.
Daniel
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 17/7/13 at 05:54 PM |
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Not seeing the distinction, accepting the ticket means you have admitted an offence and been handed a reduced penalty (and hence convicted) without
using the court system. Or at least that's how I view it.
I don't agree with it though, because the whole system is geared to stopping people from questioning the offence - the fact that they
"threaten" significantly increased penalties if you go through the court instead immediately puts people on the back foot and makes them
make a snap decision that can lasting consequences. This technique is illegal in sales world, odd that it's legal in law world.
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kj
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 08:51 AM |
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How do these carmeras work in the vans do they just hit you from one distance or over set distance, why is it just car drivers who get caught by the
front number plate what about bikes is this not discrimination.
Anyone ever challenged it??
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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kj
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 06:28 PM |
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would you challenge it or take it, got in tonight and their it was speed awareness letter, my car was caught 9mph over the limit.
Seen the van and was at the same speed as the others, checked my video of the drive and sure enough all cars the same speed, he would have have to
have been a ex sniper to get my number plate between all the other cars
Would you challenge it?
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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paulf
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 09:31 PM |
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I also had the miss pleasure of receiving a NIP last week , I was just driving gently through a village following another car when he suddenly braked
and stated waving his arm out of the window, I then saw a van parked in a pull in to the side of the road so as not to be easily noticed from further
back up the road.I was about 200 yards from it and checked my speedo which showed between 35 and 40 mph so braked and thought maybe I would get away
with it.However 2 days latter I got the notice for 39 in a 30 limit and when I checked my speedo with a sat nav it was spot on at 40.
The annoying thing is I never speed intentionally in a 30 limit but this was leaving a village with fields on one side and a row of houses on the
other , there were no noticeable street lights and no 30 repeater signs, however when I checked latter the street lights are on wooden power line
posts and not easily noticeable, I did think about challenging it but as I was speeding my only way would be that the limit was not obviously posted,
but doubt that would work.I am just glad that it was not on a de-restricted quite road as I may have been a lot more over the limit and suppose that
having been driving performance cars for the last 30 years plus it had to happen eventually.
I am going to send it back and hope to get the speed awareness course offered but have also wondered if the insurance company's will catch on
but surely if they state on the course that there is no need to tell the insurance company's then as long as there is no database of people that
have been on the course then they cant find out.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by kj
would you challenge it or take it, got in tonight and their it was speed awareness letter, my car was caught 9 mph over the limit.
Seen the van and was at the same speed as the others, checked my video of the drive and sure enough all cars the same speed, he would have have to
have been a ex sniper to get my number plate between all the other cars
Would you challenge it?
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paulf
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 09:41 PM |
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A friend of mine got caught by a camera van whilst on his motorbike so assume that they get the rear numberplate as you go past with a camera on the
front of the van, otherwise my front number plate would have fell off before now.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by kj
How do these carmeras work in the vans do they just hit you from one distance or over set distance, why is it just car drivers who get caught by the
front number plate what about bikes is this not discrimination.
Anyone ever challenged it??
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snakebelly
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 10:44 PM |
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Paul, the bad news (or good, take your pick) may be that you wont get the option to do the course different areas have different limits to qualify for
the course, when my NIP arrived the SAC paperwork and the option to elect to take it were already included so the lack of the option in your paperwork
looks like you wont get the option.
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Toltec
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 10:45 PM |
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I thought the prosecution threshold was +10% + 2mph, i.e 35mph in a 30, so you should not get an automated/van NIP for 34mph.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 11:18 PM |
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Well technically the threshold is zero, they can book you for doing 31. The 10% is more of a PR thing in saying "look, we're being
fair"
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NigeEss
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| posted on 18/7/13 at 11:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Toltec
I thought the prosecution threshold was +10% + 2mph, i.e 35mph in a 30, so you should not get an automated/van NIP for 34mph.
It used to, but no longer. It's easy money.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
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Toltec
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| posted on 19/7/13 at 08:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Well technically the threshold is zero, they can book you for doing 31. The 10% is more of a PR thing in saying . "look, we're being
fair"
I might agree with legally the threshold is zero, however technically the equipment cannot measure speed to a high enough certainty to do so. For
manned speed detection devices the highest source of error is going to be the operator. The prosecution thresholds are there to reduce false
positives, if you choose to contest the reading then a secondary source can be used for confirmation. In the case that the secondary source does not
agree with the primary reading but still shows you to be above the limit even by 1mph then legally you were speeding. I would still expect the
secondary source to show the excess speed to be above its three sigma uncertainty error.
ETA- I know police officers can make their own decision about what speed to apply a sanction to, however fixed and partnership van cameras are
supposed to follow the acpo guidelines.
ETA2- ACPO uniformed best practices, see p8 and
ACPO guidlines for courses
[Edited on 19/7/13 by Toltec]
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