daveb666
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 11:17 AM |
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4 Pot Recommendations
After my first proper blat yesterday its clear my car is now vastly under braked.
What's the most cost effective way of getting some 4pots? Willwoods from rally design?
Uprights are cortina.
Thanks
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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DIY Si
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 11:54 AM |
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What makes it underbraked? Massive fade, no bite etc? I'd always suggest a set of higher temp pads if it's fade you're dealing with,
as a cheap first course of action.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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steve m
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 01:26 PM |
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When building my car, i had brake issues, that did not feel very good, firstly i moved the fulcrum point by moving the pushrod about 20mm nearer
this gives more leverage, and vastly improved the braking,
after this, i was donated a pair of princess 4 pot calipers, there heavy but are again a vast improvement over the standard M16's
all appears to be good now
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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yellowcab
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 01:56 PM |
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Yes moving the fulcrum away from the pivot point will help massively…
As also stated - are you already on Ferrodo DS2500s or Mintex 1144s?
Ben_Copeland gets a wee discount from raldes should you go down that route...
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Marcus
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 03:59 PM |
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I can't believe M16 calipers aren't enough to stop a Locost. They used to stop Cortinas and Capris. I'd check the bore of the master
cylinder to see if that's too big. Maybe it was used with a servo originally? As said above if the pedal pressure is too much, alter the
fulcrum, If you're getting fade maybe its time for different pads / brake fluid.
I have to give my brakes a good shove to stop but I used the master cylinder from a Manta (with M16 calipers) which had a servo. Makes getting back
into the tin top a bit interesting 
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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adithorp
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 06:21 PM |
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What master cylinder do you have? Sierra one is renowned for giving a hard pedal. Swapping to a a non-servo Mk1/2 Fiesta or Fiat Uno master might
help.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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theduck
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 07:09 PM |
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Just a guess, but I think he has recently increased power significantly I would think that the brakes work fine, but dont stop the car as quickly as
it accelerates, hence being underbraked.
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daveb666
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 08:20 PM |
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Cylinder is will wood and the bias etc is spot on - and was IVA approved LOL.
As duck says, it stops quickly but not quickly enough. There's a pair of roundabouts by me with 50m of road in between, previously I was braking
from 60mph and now I'm braking from er, a lot more.
As I'm braking it slows slows and then locks a wheel. I've never crashed yet but I do feel the speed could be scrubbed off quickly with
some 4 pots.
The pads I believe are standard Ford ones lol - should I swop pads first or go for a 4 pot kit?
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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40inches
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 08:44 PM |
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1144's will make a huge difference.
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JAG
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| posted on 8/3/15 at 09:14 PM |
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If you're able to lock the wheels (you said that in your post) then the brakes are obviously powerful enough. What you're dealing with is
a pedal feel issue.
These things are best sorted by different pads (more initial bite and less fade) or a change of pedal ratio or master cylinder diameter to reduce
pedal effort.
Smaller master cylinder = less pedal effort but more travel
Bigger master cylinder = more pedal effort and less travel
Bigger pedal ratio = more pedal effort and less travel
Smaller pedal ratio = less pedal effort but more travel
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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threadbare wallet
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| posted on 9/3/15 at 08:22 AM |
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I changed from stock ford pads to 1144s last year and went from not a lot of feel and locking wheels with out any warning to having feel and some of
the best brakes i think i've had on a car for years in feel terms! They are m16s the pads make a real big difference,they put up with track days
and work on the road they are great.if you can lock a wheel you have enough power you just need feel.4 pots maygive you less unsprung weight and be a
talking point in the pub but pads are way cheaper and easier.
Very few things are "really" needed.
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daveb666
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| posted on 11/3/15 at 12:43 PM |
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My 1144 pads come today and I'm fitting some brembo high carbon front discs at the same time. We'll see how I get on.
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 08:28 AM |
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I'd have gone for DS2500s as the Mintex pads seem to be prone to squealing, but they do work well and you will notice a significant improvement
over standard pads.
Make sure you bed them in properly, it's much more important for competition pads than for standard road pads.
1) Clean discs with brake cleaner
2) Following initial brake test start with 3 or 4 light applications from 30mph down to 0mph.
After these, follow the steps below according to Material.
M1144: 6 / 7 medium pressure applications 70mph down to 30mph
M1155: 8 / 9 medium pressure applications 90mph down to 30mph
M1166: 9 / 10 medium applications 90mph down to 30mph
When carrying out the bedding process, do not allow the brakes to drag, do not left foot brake. To do so may result in damage to, or failure of the
brake system.
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beaver34
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| posted on 13/3/15 at 10:52 PM |
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I had the same feeling with mine, I went to 4 pot wilwoods it stops no quicker but they weigh less
I think the main issue is non servo brakes don't feel as powerful and the fact your going quicker than a normal car
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daveb666
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| posted on 19/4/15 at 09:29 AM |
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Thought it prudent to re-visit this thread.
Done two track days on the new setup, braking has improved. I've also replaced my 'road tyres' for semi-slicks and this solves the
locking up problem.
But at my travkday yesterday I felt I was considerably underbraked again. I just can't scrub the speed off fast enough.
I remember being a passenger in neocaptures Bus a at Mallory and the bits and pull from his brakes were epic (will woods with discs at the rear).
Thats what I need.
My car is quite heavy now, probably 650 without a driver so I would say that I'm trying to slow down a lot more weight than some of the cars in
here.
My first thought was to go to my mates MOT brake rollers and see just what sort of braking force I have front to rear to see if I can adjust the bias
somewhat. Then check what ratios I have in the M/C.
If that all seems OKI don't think I have any choice but to try the willwoods.
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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daveb666
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 08:55 AM |
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No further comments from anyone? 
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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jeffw
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 09:13 AM |
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Does the feel change during a track session or does it feel the same all the way through? Your video with the Ariels seems to show the black one is
doing you on corner speed and initial pickup (I assume it is Supercharged) and the yellow one if moving away from slow speed corners.
[Edited on 21/4/15 by jeffw]
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daveb666
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 09:45 AM |
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The pedal feel changed since the last trackday - more travel.
I went for a passenger ride in the Atom and his brake bit is just epic compared to mine, he does run Alcon 4 pots all-round but his car absolutely
dives and slams you into the harnesses. I get nothing like that, and didn't at the last trackday either.
Both are S/C, exactly the same car I think.
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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daveb666
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 10:04 AM |
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Hi Wylie, thanks for the reply.
I have an OBP pedal box with adjustable bias - never checked how it's adjusted but it passed the IVA and doesn't swop ends so it
can't be a million miles off
Currently M16 front calipers, 1144 pads, 241mm solid discs (Brembo High carbon)
Drums on a live axle at the back
My cylinder sizes are the same as yours.
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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britishtrident
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 10:46 AM |
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Increased travel after the brakes bed in if not due to rear drums needing the ratchet inside the drums needing adjusted up points to a calliper
piston problem. Girling M16 callipers are prone to a piston becoming stuck after fitting new pads, initially the brakes feel fine but with
wear/bedding in the brake pedal travel increases gradually and eventually after a few thousand miles the stopping power gradually becomes less and
the brakes pull to one side.
Simple enough to check next time you have a wheel off just push the pads back a mm or so and then pump the pedal.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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daveb666
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 10:48 AM |
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Thanks, I will try that britishtrident
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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jeffw
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 10:49 AM |
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If you want the "pin you in the harness" effect you'll need to change front and backs to Wilwood (or HiSpec/AP/Alcon etc) with
vented discs upfront on a Midlite or equivalent and Powerlite handbrake calipers on plain discs on the back. Then you can wind the bias back until
the rears lock first and edge it to the forwards. This will give you max performance. Look at Hawk or Carbon Lorraine pads.
In the short term you might want to look at getting the material on the shoes re-done with more track related compound (something that Cambridge
Motorsport do).
[Edited on 21/4/15 by jeffw]
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daveb666
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 11:20 AM |
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Do you have rear discs Jeff?
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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jeffw
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 03:27 PM |
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I didn't but I do now and it has made a remarkable difference to the brake balance feel (if that makes sense)
[Edited on 21/4/15 by jeffw]
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