james h
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 06:46 PM |
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Brake squeal with M1144
I've copper greased the back of the pads (Mintex 1144 on the front only) and they still squeal like a stuck pig. I don't have any shims.
The callipers are Wilwood Powerlites.
Anyone found a solution? It's really annoying and a bit embarrassing when slowing down for lights in town/just pottering along!
James
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adithorp
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 07:06 PM |
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Giving them a really good heat cycle can help sometimes.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 07:06 PM |
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I had exactly that problem with M1144 pads in my Cortina callipers - originally I used the sticky rubber patches that came with the pads, but they
made no difference. In the end I gave up and re-fitted the original pads.
However I gave them another go a month or so back, but this time I tore off the rubber backing patches and fitted the original Cortina shims instead
(without copper grease). Now they are totally silent, and REALLY work well.
So - try fitting them like normal pads with shims (if you can get them for Wilwoods).
[Edited on 20/4/16 by David Jenkins]
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bi22le
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 07:08 PM |
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Well i have the same set up as you and dont experience brake squeal on track.
could it be that your not getting the pads warm or they now have a build up on their surface that you need to get rid of?
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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obfripper
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 07:26 PM |
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With my old m16 calipers they used to squeal when cold and warm, but it used to disappear after 2-3 firm decelerations and reappear when cooled.
I have not had much squeal from the midlite calipers that i now have, they took about 1000 miles to get rid of green fade completely during which they
squealed intermittently, but now hardly ever squeal - i used dynalite pattern pads with slight modifications and inserts in the retaining clip holes
to make them fit tighter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rcxblureqgngih3/Screenshot_2016-04-20-20-16-10.png?raw=1
Dave
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GeoffT
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 07:33 PM |
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Another vote for the original Ford shims (Escort, Cortina, etc). I used a smear of copper grease with them, cured mine completely and they were
squealing like pigs before...!
Edit: Forgot to say that was 1144 pads in M16 calipers.
[Edited on 20/4/16 by GeoffT]
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madteg
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 07:36 PM |
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Sorry to say this, but i had the same problem. Tried everything i could think of to stop it, changed pads for 3 different makes. ground leading edge
on pads, copper greased. In the end binned the willwoods and fitted Brembo's, never had a squeal since. ( Sorry )
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james h
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 07:57 PM |
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Argh ok, thanks.
First thing to do is give take the car out and try to get some high temperature into the pads. Do glazed discs/pads increase squeal?
Shorter and harder braking seems to help but it isn't ideal when just cruising around.
Dave - did you make those inserts yourself?
Also, would using a metal file work for chamfering the leading edge?
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james h
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 08:40 PM |
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What is the opinion on this?
Mintex Ceratec Anti Squeal Grease with Universal Brake Pad Anti Squeal Shims.
Looks like official Mintex shims (going by the packaging).
[Edited on 20/4/16 by james h]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 08:53 PM |
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James
My shims were the ones that came with the Ford pads.
The Mintex kit looks like the rubber pads I had originally - didn't work for me.
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obfripper
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| posted on 20/4/16 at 09:13 PM |
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I don't know for certain if they make too much difference to the squeal but there was a large difference between the hole size and the pin size
enough for the pad to move in and out 2-3mm ish that i wasn't happy with.
They were alloy top hats i turned up, and then peened over using the head of a clout nail in a press - a vice would do the same job, a large pop rivet
might do the same job as a top hat.
The other difference is this time i started with new discs so there was no other transfered material from different pad types on the discs which can
cause noises.
Glazing on the discs/pads from insufficent bedding will definately cause squealing, i did find that bedding the midlite pads took quite a lot more
cycles than the old m16 caliper pads to reach temperature before cooling off.
http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/technical-tips/pad-bedding-in/mintex
If you have some coarse emery wrapped over the file it will save blunting the file if you want to relieve the leading edge.
The universal shim pads may work, use the ceratec grease as you would use copperslip, as mentioned the rubbery ones that used to come with m1144 pads
were not very good (the piston would just punch a hole in the shim), but these universal ones look like they may have more reinforcement.
Dave
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 21/4/16 at 05:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by james h
What is the opinion on this?
Mintex Ceratec Anti Squeal Grease with Universal Brake Pad Anti Squeal Shims.
Looks like official Mintex shims (going by the packaging).
[Edited on 20/4/16 by james h]
That's what I used and it stopped the squeal. They will need regreasing once in a while. Mine do now after being laid up over winter.
Ben
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mazie
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| posted on 21/4/16 at 06:22 AM |
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same setup as you and same issue from day one, when heated up ( on track) it went away but returned again with normal road driving. I sourced the
sticky backed rubber pads from mintex and this has stopped it by 90% .
If your running 'Powerlites' don't forget to give them a good clean around the pistons as they don't have dust guards and are
meant to be checked often.
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 21/4/16 at 08:54 AM |
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I've had horrendous squeal, M1155, DS2500, Pagid Blue.... and yes, the brakes run from cold to cracking type temperatures. Track use, but still
annoying.
The only consistent ingredient was the caliper - Powerlite. Changing that for a Brembo has made things peaceful.
I'm guessing that the lack of inherent rigidity with the Powerlite might have caused a resonance issue? As usual, talking out of my ass (no,
I'm not in Government), but it seemed plausible at the time.
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johnH20
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| posted on 26/4/16 at 07:37 PM |
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Slight thread drift, I don't have squeal but I have terrible pad rattle on my M1144/Dynalite front brakes. Does not matter on the open road but
sounds like the front wheels are about to fall off around town. Anti rattle shims are common on OEM installations. Anyone got info on some generic
solution I could use? TIA.
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obfripper
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| posted on 26/4/16 at 07:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnH20
Slight thread drift, I don't have squeal but I have terrible pad rattle on my M1144/Dynalite front brakes. Does not matter on the open road but
sounds like the front wheels are about to fall off around town. Anti rattle shims are common on OEM installations. Anyone got info on some generic
solution I could use? TIA.
I take it you have the early cast type caliper, and so don't have the sprung end shims inset into the caliper?
Have a look here, you could copy these shims fairly easily in stainless to see what
difference it makes.
Dave
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johnH20
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| posted on 26/4/16 at 09:01 PM |
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Thanks Dave, you are right I have early cast calipers. Shims like those in the link are what I had in mind. Out with the tin snips! Thanks for the
tip.
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james h
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| posted on 26/4/16 at 11:24 PM |
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Update:
Over the last week I've been making a point of pushing the brakes and getting some decent heat in the discs/pads. I haven't changed
anything else.
Since then, I'm pleased to say the squeal has reduced about 50-60%. The brake feel has improved too. I hope this trend is set to continue!
I'll keep this thread updated.
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kingster996
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| posted on 27/4/16 at 06:39 AM |
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Mine squeal when slowly coming to a halt Except after a decent blat when they've had some heat in them.
I always wear a lid so don't hear it as much as my neighbours do as I pull up to the garage.
On the plus side, it lets people know you are there as you pull along side a van/suv/artic/numpty at a roundabout!
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure
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james h
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 07:50 PM |
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Update:
The squealing came back after some light use, still not as bad as it was originally.
I've since fitted the rubber shims as pictured above (covering the entire rear of the pad). They actually seem to have some fibreglass strands
running through.
Now it's much better, even more so than described in my last post. There is some copper slip remaining on the caliper itself which also might be
helping. If I get around to it I'll end up applying the Ceratec paste onto the rear of the pad and the retaining pins.
I still get some squeal during light stops, but as long as I don't have a passenger next to me I usually stand on the middle pedal a little
harder anyway.
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