Avoneer
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 05:04 PM |
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Live axle and panhard rod
Does a live axle really need a panhard rod?
Reason I ask is that I think the panhardrod will interfere with the handbrake bar/cable arrangement once fitted.
Anyone got round this?
Cheers,
Pat...
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 05:12 PM |
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not necessarily a panhard rod, but it does need something to prevent lateral movement. have you considered the alternatives? ie watts linkage etc
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chunkielad
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 05:20 PM |
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If there are trailing arms fitted will these do the same job?
I am looking at de dion myself but thought the principle of the panhard the same on both.
I really don't want to fit a panhard either if I can help it. Does anyone have a diagram of a watts linkage?
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Avoneer
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 05:27 PM |
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Would prefer a panhard rod.
Hi Chunkie - how's it going?
Panhard rod is easy with Sierra back end!
As I'm using Mk2 Escort rear end, it will be awkward.
Pat...
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Peteff
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 06:03 PM |
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Panhard rod does some serious hard work so it definitely is needed. My mate made his first one from undersize tube and it lasted under a week. It bent
like a banana. I have a capri axle which is like MK2 but longer, why is it a problem with the Escort?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Avoneer
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 06:05 PM |
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Because the handbrake cable and bar go right acroos the back of the axle.
There's enough room for the trailing arm brackets, but the panhard rod may foul on the horizontal cable.
Pat...
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 06:54 PM |
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I redrilled my brake backplates so that the slave cylinders where at the top, and made my own compensatorswivel thingy and welded it to the top of the
axle near the diff and then used a Marina 2 into 1 cable.
Didn't have probs with clearance to Panhard rod.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 06:58 PM |
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Get a late model Ital hand brake cable it does away with the solid rod and the stupid rubber hinge thingy which causes immense problems when it goes
hard with age. The Ital part is a straight replacement for the Escort cable except it has a much nicer threaded adjuster an runs a wire cables across
the axle to each wheel instead of the 5/16" rod to one wheel. All it needs is a large cable tie to support (as on the Ital) and allows the
rubbe hinge to be ditched --- this was quite a common mod on Escorts in the 80s as it got round the problem of the rubber hinge going hard with
age.
The late Marina 1700 /early Ital cable will also work but has a thin metal rod running to one wheel so the late Ital is the best.
NB early Marina cable will not work for this mod as it is almost identical to the Escort type.
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phil m
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 07:15 PM |
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had the same prob -- made a bracket at the axle end which acted as a spacer. The origional handbrake mechanism then fitted ok.
There's a pic on my phot's showing the bracket----a bit of cutting and shutting
hope this helps -phil
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 07:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
I redrilled my brake backplates so that the slave cylinders where at the top, and made my own compensatorswivel thingy and welded it to the top of the
axle near the diff and then used a Marina 2 into 1 cable.
Didn't have probs with clearance to Panhard rod.
Me too - rotated the back-plates about 45 degrees, should have made it around 60 degrees. Still, worked out just fine.
David
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Avoneer
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 07:50 PM |
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Thanks guys.
Will wait to see how it's going to work when it's all in situ.
What about Ron's idea of using two handbrake cables, one to each back plate - Allegro wasn't it?
Phil M - Like your idea best - does the cable go through the spacer? Also, who's rear arches are you using as they suit the car really well -
look good by the way.
Pat...
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However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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chunkielad
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 07:54 PM |
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Hi avoneer.
SO basically, on a Dedion or live axle you need trailing arms AND a Panhard rod?
I'm glad I'm on a sierra rear end as the whole handbrake thing seems a bit of a nightmare!!!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 07:54 PM |
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I also used a capri axle, with the standard handbrake cable, I lifted the chassis end of the panhard rod and everything clears nicely
 
Rescued attachment CapriHandbrake.jpg
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 07:57 PM |
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...like this
 
Rescued attachment Inner Rear Panel.jpg
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 10:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chunkielad
Hi avoneer.
SO basically, on a Dedion or live axle you need trailing arms AND a Panhard rod?
I'm glad I'm on a sierra rear end as the whole handbrake thing seems a bit of a nightmare!!!
You need some way of locating the axle, and trailing arms and panard rod is what the locost uses. There are numerous other ways though, the escort
just uses leaf springs to (poorly) locate the axle, an arrangement known as a Hotchkiss Drive.
Are you really using the whole Sierra trailing arm assembly on your locost?
[Edited on 13/1/05 by MikeRJ]
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Avoneer
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 10:16 PM |
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Hi,
No, I'm not using any Sierra drive train.
All mk2 Escort live axle with trailing arms and a panhard rod - just wondering how people have fitted the panhard rod due it possibly contacting the
handbrake cable at one side when the axle move up and down.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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chunkielad
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 10:26 PM |
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I'm using sierra ends on a De Dion (from gts probably) tube. I just don't get why you need both trailing arms and panhard rod. Surely they
do the same thing in a different way, or am I being stupid?
Sorry to semi Hijack the thread.
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Peteff
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 posted on 13/1/05 at 10:37 PM |
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Leave it off then.
Trailing arms control up and down location, panhard rod controls sideways. Leave it off and watch as the wheels chew away at your chassis every time
you corner. On a de dion it will be even worse as the drive shafts will disconnect from the diff due to no sideways location.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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chunkielad
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| posted on 13/1/05 at 10:54 PM |
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Ahhh, what you just said make everything make sense!!!
Sidewards movement!! I thought, from the way it had been explained to me that it was another way to stop the wheels moving front and back. I
couldn't understand how the panhard did that but now you said that, It makes sense how it works!!!!
Doh!!!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 08:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
Thanks guys.
Will wait to see how it's going to work when it's all in situ.
What about Ron's idea of using two handbrake cables, one to each back plate - Allegro wasn't it?
Phil M - Like your idea best - does the cable go through the spacer? Also, who's rear arches are you using as they suit the car really well -
look good by the way.
Pat...
If you want to go that route the repro handbrake cables made for old MGs TD and TF are perfect for the task and not that expensive they fit
straight on to an early Mini (twin cable) handbrake lever (not sure how this is SVA wise) -- usual classic MG people can supply -- Moss, or NTG
services.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 08:37 AM |
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The book Locost axle is strictly speaking over located --- to locate an axle only 4 links are required BUT at least one must be angled to give
transverse location.
This is what is used on the Cortina 3+ (angled uper links) and in a different form the original Lotus/Cateham 7 S1 to S3 (S4 was different) on
which which combined 2 lower links to form an "A" frame.
However 4 link location tends to cause problems --- Lotus/Caterhams crack axles and Cortina chew through upper bushes.
Going back the Locost book suspension it is over located -- strictly speaking you can only get away with this geometry if transverse location is by a
centrally mounted Watts linkage but the real world Locost gets away with the geometry error because of the limmited suspension movement and some
compliance in the suspension bushes and the chassis mounting and axle flex very slightly. --- This is one of the reasons on my car I use rubber
bushes using non compliant bushes such as rose joints on all 10 mountings is likely to cause problems with fatigue cracking later in the car
life.
[Edited on 14/1/05 by britishtrident]
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chunkielad
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 09:56 AM |
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So am I right in saying a Watts linkage is like two panhard rods but just going to the centre instead of all accross?
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Peteff
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 10:32 AM |
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Rough sketch..
My idea of a Watts linkage is like this.The ends would be rose jointed of course so they can be fine tuned.
 
Rescued attachment watts.jpg
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 11:07 AM |
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of course all dimesion would be symetricall - otherwise that axle would be travelling sideways aswell
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/1/05 at 12:46 PM |
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I once did some work on a much modified Plus 4 Morgan that belonged to a well known female scottish Chain Gang member it (the car) had a spigot
welded to the back of the diff casing --- the spigot carried a very large ball bearing the outer race of which ran between vertical angle iron tracks
welded to the chassis thus providing lateral location. --- made me smile ;-)
----I0I----
[Edited on 14/1/05 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 14/1/05 by britishtrident]
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