andyd
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 posted on 24/3/02 at 08:11 PM |
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Suspension question
Would someone/anyone/everyone have a look at this http://www.andy.dix.btinternet.co.uk/locost/wishbone.htm and give some advice? 
I have a washer dilema and need assistance.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 24/3/02 at 08:22 PM |
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It looks to me as if your brackets are too wide, I don't think I've seen poly bushes used with a washer between the end of the bush and the inside
of the bracket.
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 24/3/02 at 08:31 PM |
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looks as if you may have by accident what i have by design, you now have the ability to alter castor angles by the use of washers inside the brackets,
i made some nylon ones on a lathe but stainless steel or bzp plate'd mild steel ones will be fine, don't worry about it, just shim up to suit your
handling requirments, whats the difference between a washer or the side of the bracket ? correct, nothing,  ... oh if you still have doubts check
out a few budget race cars, they will employ the same method, its cheaper than "rose joints"
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andyd
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| posted on 24/3/02 at 09:06 PM |
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Mmm... the thing is that it's a Luego built chassis (inc. brackets) and they also suplied me with the wishbones and bushes/inserts etc.
A mate of mine said that usually it's the metal insert that sticks out a little at each end and that's the bit that gets "locked" when it's
tightened together. That means the up/down motion of the wishbone would result in the insert twisting inside against the poly bushes to give the
torque. As it stands the twisting motion would occur only between the face of the bush (against either washer or bracket) and a small amount of the
inside of the bush where it's inserted in the wishbone tube. Surely meaning that the metal insert tube is only really to put the bolt through to stop
it from waring the bush away. Don't know if that make sense to anyone 
Any other comments very welcome 
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Mike McKinstry
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| posted on 24/3/02 at 09:25 PM |
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Andy,not an expert either but my chassis,bones and 'serts all came from MK
and I know metal sleeves protruded fractionally from polybush and I have washers on outside of susp.brkt.-if this helps--by the way you must e-mail me
off site and tell me what build stage you're at as you are only up the road from me (I work in BSE)and just when I thought everyone on this site was
from Yorkshire!Cheers Mike.
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James
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| posted on 25/3/02 at 11:54 AM |
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Bob has the setup from MK too and I noticed the same thing with his- ie. horizontal 'play' by the wishbone along the line of where the bolt will go.
I can't see any reason not to pack it with washers as John (and Jon!) said.
But, bear in mind that once you've tightened up the bolt the gap will (to a certain extent) get closed anyway so it may not be so much of a
problem!!
Just my inexperienced two penn' worth.
James
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Dunc
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| posted on 25/3/02 at 02:11 PM |
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Also, get some copper grease between as the washers brackets etc, cos it will get hot and squeaky if you don't.
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andyd
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| posted on 26/3/02 at 07:56 AM |
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Thanks all for the responses.
I did have a quick chat with Grant at Luego and he said that packing with washers was ok and the brackets have been design that way (as Jon said) to
aid setup for racers (and road racers too  )
He also said that after a few up/down motions, part of the bush face will wear away and therefore "countersink" the washer so it will make contact
with the metal insert tube. It'll then be doing the correct job anyway
And thanks Dunc for the copper grease tip, good call
Again many thanks go to all.
As long as my shocks get delivered today I may have a rolling chassis by tonight
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bob
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 posted on 26/3/02 at 08:38 AM |
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I've heard some people putting a synthetic type grease (red i think) on the poly bushes.
Copper grease through the bolts is a good call as most people have a tin in the garage.
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andyd
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| posted on 27/3/02 at 10:57 PM |
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A bit of an update...
I've packed the wishbones out where I can with washers which seem ok. When the wishbones go up and down the washers do move against each other (not
sure if this is good news or not).
I do seem to have a knocking effect on one of the lower wishbone connections though which looks like the bolt I'm using (12mm) is slightly too small
for the bush insert. It doesn't do it on the other ones though which used the same bolts, washers etc.
The most annoying thing is that Luego sold me both the bush inserts and the bolts to go with 'em and you'd hope that they'd supply the correct
size! 
Still mustn't complain too much. After all it's not a caterham kit is it
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Marcus
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| posted on 30/3/02 at 07:09 PM |
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Caterham Kit????
Who wants one of those?
Locosts handle better, Ca*****ms have too much understeer. (Made 'safe' for Joe Public).
Ca*****ms are too cramped in the footwell, witnes the anount of poncey Sparco slippers worn by their drivers. (By the way Locodude, have you bought
yours yet?)
Other than that, they look quite nice I suppose.
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locodude
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| posted on 30/3/02 at 08:39 PM |
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Hi Marcus
No I have'nt, I took the cowards way out and bowed to peer pressure. To be honest there's no need for them as I can drive the Tangerine Dream
with'CAT' boots on!
Chris PTM
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Nick Davison
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| posted on 30/3/02 at 08:53 PM |
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I noticed the same play with the set I bought from Locost. They explained that the play, at my guess about 0.5mm, between the 12mm bolt and the bush
was to aid greasing? Also, and a little more plausible, when the grease runs out and water gets in, corrosion will seize the bearing if it is too
tight ie. manufactured as a bearing surface should be! It wasn’t something I was too impressed with as I expect it would produce some sort of clunk
in the suspension some where or other, either now or after a bit of use and wear. It seems that yours has shown up already.
My solution was to ream out the bush supplied by locost to 0.5in and fit a 0.5in BSF bolt(only BSF because I have some left over from bike
restorations, any bolt with 0.5in shank diameter would do). The other problem of water ingestion and rust/seizure would prove a larger problem now
that there is no play in the bearing it’s self. To over come this I drilled a 2 or 3mm hole down the length of the bolt from the head to about half
way, then drilled the same size from the shank to the central drilling. The head hole was widened enough to allow me to tap a thread big enough for a
grease nipple.
A perfectly lubricated suspension bearing.
I did change the bolt for a high tensile stainless bolt to give it more strength. In addition to help retain the grease I used 12mm washers inside
the bracket as you have, these are a good sliding fit over a 0.5in bolt and will help to keep the grease in. It should now only be a matter of a few
squirts of grease every month rather than taking the suspension to bits to grease it!
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andyd
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| posted on 31/3/02 at 10:07 AM |
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Hi Nick,
It was a dry fit only as a quick trial. I didn't really tighten the bolts up that much either so it'll probably be better when it's all greased up
and tightened correctly.
I too am a bit disappointed that Luego (used to be Locost) sell a "starter kit" which you still have to muck about with to get it to work. I know
the whole ethos is that of scratch build but for those of us who just want a decent car on the road in a short period of time, it's a little
annoying. That said, my mate and I are still having fun at the moment. We've got the back axle and suspension finished and the back wheels are on
the ground It now resembles a very expensive wheel barrow 
Oh well now to put the front suspension together for real... or rather until we have to take it off again to fit the side ally panel This is
deliberate before anyone questions our sanity 'cause we want to get a rolling chassis with brakes before panelling anything.
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phil m
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| posted on 1/4/02 at 03:45 PM |
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-I've had the same question Myself --having bought the bushes from lolocost I phoned their technical line and found that the info given was spot on
-also felt that they were really interested and will usre them again-
The inner tube supplied by them is wider than the bushes and so allows end-float- it was confirmed ,though, that this isn't essential and the bush
face can be flush to the bracket wall---washers inc.
Phil
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JohnFol
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 03:32 PM |
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I am about to start making the brackets. If you look at the 26 that need to be made, they suggest getting strips of metal, bending them etc. However
if you look at the 2 that go on the rear axle mount, it's cut from 2" tubular steel with the 4th side removed. What would be the problem using this
method for all 26?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/6/02 at 03:51 PM |
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I know people have used a continuous length of "3-sided tube" for the front end of the rear suspension arms - I certainly would have, if I hadn't
already made and fitted conventional brackets.
I can't see any reason why you shouldn't cut brackets out of tube - aprt from the expense and hard work!
David
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