wilkingj
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:06 AM |
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HELP - Brake Pads / EBC green Stuff
Hi, I have fitted good quality Std pads to my Viento.
Now I have driven it on the road, the pedal needs a LOT of pressure for any really good braking force.
I realise I dont have a servo, and this will be the case.
I have the normal two m/Cylinder set up with ballance bar.
Font are sierra 2.0 litre 240mm vented discs.
Rear are the std discs from a 4x4 (rears are same for nearly all models of sierra)
They passed the MoT (just). 100Kgs on front and 150kgs on rear (Brake machine readings)
They are not bedded in yet (done 7 miles)
ALL braking components are NEW, calipers etc.
I have SVA next Tuesday.
Should I fit EBC Green Stuff, and will it be any improvement bearing in mind there is no servo. Should I keep the existing pads, and hope they bed in
a bit more on the 50 miles to the SVA centre.
What does the team think, and best suggestions please.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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DarrenW
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:12 AM |
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Ive fitted greenstuff pads and to be honest dont rate them that highly. Ive heard similar experiences from other people. Ithinkothers have fitted
Mintex 1144 with better results.
The greenstuffs seemed to be Ok on a wet tracj day but i suspect this is cos i got some heat into them.
I have found the biggest learning with these cars is that you have to press the pedal a lot harder than a normal road car due to lack of servo. It
might just be a case of getting used to them and bedding them in. I just scraped thro SVA test with new pads. The tester did comment that they will be
better when bedded in.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:13 AM |
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i have exactly the same as you on my BEC
apart from maxtorq discs and pads
everything is new
I bled the system first time no air
perfect took for a drive rock hard pedal was like this for about 6 miles then on way to SVA brake pedal went as soft as shite
and is only rock hard when it gets about about 70% in..
do not fit EBC pads there wont be any difference whatsoever apart from more noise
my brakes to me are now poo I appreciate no servo
but they got worse everything is tight no fluid leaking etc
so I think they need a rebleed
HTH
chris
[Edited on 3/5/06 by zxrlocost]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:14 AM |
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They may bed in but you typically do have to press much harder than in a modern car with servo assistance.
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muzchap
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:17 AM |
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Hmm not sure about this 'Greenstuff' are rubbish comments.
They are excellent on my mates Luego Velocity XT - we've done fast road driving and track days - they performed flawlessly.
Don't forget he's trying to STOP a big V8 wide bodied locost!
I'd definitely recommend the green stuffs and a re-bleed
I got mine 'DIRT' cheap from Central Auto Supplies (CAS) - Just make sure they give you the correct ones - they sent me Sierra ABS ones
first which didnae fit
Also - you do have to push harder - but it should be very 'progressive' - I love the manual feel of braking and am dissapointed when I get
back in the servo assisted BM 
Tons of Lotus boys run greenstuff in their non-servo assisted and they all rate them
[Edited on 3/5/06 by muzchap]
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:22 AM |
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ok weve all got our thoughts On EBC
lets rephrase it
fitting your EBC pads isnt going to make a scrap of difference to your problem
if you neccessarily have a prob
or it could just be the fact you have got a big daddy engine upfront
as I said originally try a rebleed
and a good drive
ta chris
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muzchap
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:25 AM |
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BUT - if his standard pads are crap!
SURELY uprating to EBC Green Stuff - will assist?
Tell ya what Geoff - come and try my Green Stuffs - they are new and unused - I'm in Peterborough - fly down, fit em - go for a drive - if they
are better - buy some - if they aint - dont
That'll solve the problem once and for all
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 09:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by muzchap
BUT - if his standard pads are crap!
SURELY uprating to EBC Green Stuff - will assist?
If his problem was that the original pads faded badly under hard braking then perhaps (though Greenstuff aren't that great under hard use IME).
However, his problem is that of excessive pedal pressure being required. Typicaly putting uprated pads in will INCREASE the pedal pressure required,
especialy when the pads are cold.
New pads always require more pedal effort until they are bedded in. I would give it a couple of hnudred miles and see what they are like then.
[Edited on 3/5/06 by MikeRJ]
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muzchap
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 11:49 AM |
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quote:
New pads always require more pedal effort until they are bedded in. I would give it a couple of hnudred miles and see what they are like then.
Fair point - To be honest - just trying to be PRO 'Green Stuff' have never experienced a problem with them and not sure why they get
slated so much!
I've also heard good reports about the MINTEX 1144's
Perhaps it's time for Geoff to sneak out at night and do some serious stamping on the brakes
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 12:07 PM |
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What bore mastercylinders are you using ?
It also looks like you have a brake balance problem that will be come apparent when you fix the pedal effort problem. Wind the balance bar more toward
the front.
If you have 2 different bore master cylinders the smaller connects to the front.
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dern
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 03:48 PM |
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I use green stuff on my v8 westy and found that they were awful. I took it all apart and found that the discs and pads had glazed so I rubbed it all
down and bedded them in more carefully and now I find that they are much much better (this is a standard tina set up by the way). The only thing I
don't like about them is that they need a bit of heat to make them effective which is ok but with the discs hung out in the wind I found that if
I drove for a while without using the brakes then there was a disconcerting pause before they bit. I can't see how I could get around this
really unless I use pads that start working at a lower temperature or shield the discs in some way. I have some 1144s in the garage that I'm
going to fit this w/e and I'll let you know how I get on with those.
Mark
R1 (2003 FI) powered Locost in progress
Fireblade/Impreza
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wilkingj
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 04:46 PM |
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I have two genuine Girling mastercyls 0.625 for the front and 0.7 for the rear.
The ballance bar is set to give more pressure on the front. The MoT man said the ballance was OK and the front will lock before the rears. (from the
readings on the machine).
I think its two issues:
1. the pads are not bedded in at all. just 6 miles driven so far.
2. No Servo, which makes the pedal need more pressure to get the same braking effect. I feel there is nothing wrong with the brakes, they just need
bedding in.
However, with the SVA looming, I have a little time to change if there is a better solution out there.
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
What bore mastercylinders are you using ?
It also looks like you have a brake balance problem that will be come apparent when you fix the pedal effort problem. Wind the balance bar more toward
the front.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 05:20 PM |
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Suspect you may have too much bias to the rear? Geoff Thats why I locked the bias bar the way I showed you . Had to adjust mine at SVA because I had
too much to the rear.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 3/5/06 at 07:13 PM |
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RE-BLEED!!!!
it wont hurt
youve put pressure on the new system now by driving it for a few miles
so give it a fresh flush out
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britishtrident
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| posted on 4/5/06 at 07:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
RE-BLEED!!!!
it wont hurt
youve put pressure on the new system now by driving it for a few miles
so give it a fresh flush out
It might not inflict pain on anyone but a waste of time and perfectly good brake fluid.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 4/5/06 at 09:54 AM |
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Right, brakes, here we go.
1) make sure everything is mechanically set up ok, pads free to move etc etc
2) make sure everything is properly bled so pedal is solid
3) if you've run them for 6 miles already, lightly sand the new pads to remove any shinyness
4) take for a run where there are some reasonable straights with little traffic, brake repeatedly from 30mph to 5mph, never coming to a halt. Once the
pedal feel loses its springiness the pads are then the right shape to fit the disc exactly, then start braking progressively harder from higher speed,
but still not coming to a stop, until you can smell burning pad. Once you can, then coast along gently without braking for a bit and later come to a
gentle stop without braking and don't touch the brake with the car stopped.
THIS IS THE CORRECT PROCEDURE FOR BEDDING IN ANY BRAKE PADS.
THE KEY IS NEVER "STOP" WITH YOUR FOOT ON THE BRAKE WHILE BEDDING IN.
If the system is designed correctly there should be no problem.
EBC pads won't solve a critical problem.
Incidentally I have found EBC green pads to be an improvement on cheapo std road pads, but crap under hard conditions. Used them on a road rally car,
where they'll do a 3 or 4 mile section before fading, where std pads will do about a mile before fading to nothing. In the same car and on the
same road Mintex 1144 pads never faded AT ALL! Yes they stunk and smoked but still worked fine. Any smoke from the others and you knew the pedal would
feel like it had a brick under it at the next corner, hard pedal and no brakes, a horrid feeling!!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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dern
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 11:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dernI have some 1144s in the garage that I'm going to fit this w/e and I'll let you know how I get on
with those.
Reporting back as promised... replaced my ebc greens with 1144s this w/e on the v8 and they offer better feel, better performance
from cold and less fall off of performance during a bit of driving where I'm not using the brakes... ie you don't get that pause while
they get up to temp as you brake hard for the motorway services 
Mark
R1 (2003 FI) powered Locost in progress
Fireblade/Impreza
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