phoenix70
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 01:02 PM |
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Self Centering Steering
Well like a lot of people, one of my fail points for my SVA was 'no self centering steering action', so after looking through this forum,
the easiest solution was to put some springs in the rack (I know various people will disagree, but thats the route I'm taking). Anyway got a
hold of some valve spring (out of a Sierra Cosworth engine I think), and follows snoopy's drawing puting two into each side of the rack.
First problem was, on one side (left) the spring goes into the rack, but a little spacer should sort that out.
The bigger problem is the amount of lock I've lost, it looks like for lock to lock, will be 1.5 turns. That seem a lot more than a little lost
lock (halving the original lock). So I think the springs I've used are either not compressing as much as the should, or are too long in the
first place. I know some people have successfully used Pinto valve springs, but an anyone tell me the uncompressed/compressed length of these
springs, or suggest a suitable alternative spring.
TIA.
Scott
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muzchap
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 01:11 PM |
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I would have thought that big ole' red thing in your avtar would have self centered? Certainly most people that own them have no problems with
being self centered 
Sorry - couldn't resist!
Ooh good idea on the springs though - might just do this myself
*keeps eye on thread*
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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nitram38
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 01:26 PM |
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I went through all the options. In the end I remade my top bones to give me 7 degrees of castor.
Only took 2 hours to do and a day in the powder coaters.
Centers a treat. Glad I did it properly in the end.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 01:53 PM |
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This seems to work well... not ideal but if you see what i mean.
Can be altered back after SVA.
No offence Mark... but it works a treat!
PICTURE
[Edited on 5-6-06 by Hellfire]
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phoenix70
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 01:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
This seems to work well... not ideal but if you see what i mean.
Can be altered back after SVA.
No offence Mark... but it works a treat!
PICTURE
[Edited on 5-6-06 by Hellfire]
WOW, just how much toe out is that???
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:00 PM |
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if you search about a week ago I put up a how to make your indy self centre
you havent got to do anything different itll work fine
and ive explained it ok I think
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phoenix70
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
if you search about a week ago I put up a how to make your indy self centre
you havent got to do anything different itll work fine
and ive explained it ok I think
I did read your posting, but you didn't say which springs you used and also how much steering lock you lost. I haven't driven the car
since I put the springs in, but the lack of lock could be a problem and it just seems to be too much lock lost.
Pretty much just looking for a little more info.
Cheers
Scott
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DarrenW
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:19 PM |
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I dont understand why you MK boys have so much bother. My ZR flew thro the self centering test and isnt that far away from Mk geometry. My Dad built
an MK locost (one of the early chassis) and got thro no bother.
Mushroom eccentric hole full forward. Neutral camber. Loads of toe out to the point where it looked wrong. Tyres 40psi. I drove there and back with
18psi though. Yes the car handled badly and care had to be exercised on the road (drive carefully and no liability accepted if you drive with these
settings) but SVA was no problem. Self centering was plentiful. No springs in the std shortened Sierra rack.
After re-setting (ie normal toe in and 1deg neg camber) self centering has disappeared.
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eagle
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:21 PM |
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I remade my top wishbones to give 7 degrees of castor and what a difference self centering.I tried the springs first but lost way to much lock,took
for ever to turn the car round.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:40 PM |
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I did mention about losing lock
but youve still got equivalent lock to a production car
dont know where springs were from there just valve springs
Ive done about 500 miles with testing and SVA and back etc etc absolutley perfect
although it will all be took of after
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iank
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
...Mushroom eccentric hole full forward. Neutral camber. Loads of toe out to the point where it looked wrong. Tyres 40psi. I drove there and back with
18psi though. Yes the car handled badly and care had to be exercised on the road (drive carefully and no liability accepted if you drive with these
settings) but SVA was no problem. ...
Someone wrote on here that the inspectors had cottoned on to the rock hard tyres and extreme toe-out cheat and were failing those that tried.
No idea why it hasn't been fixed by all the manufacturers.
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phoenix70
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
I did mention about losing lock
but youve still got equivalent lock to a production car
Yes you did, but I was surprise about how much it reduce the lock, its a little more that 'slightly'
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Maradona
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 02:54 PM |
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If you dont want to die, dont even think put springs to the rack.
The only way to fix the problem is ad more castor angle.
If you want a example of self centered direction, U can watches the front bracket of a bicycle.
I hope you excuseme to my English level.
Regards
[Edited on 5/6/06 by Maradona]
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 03:08 PM |
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tried and tested thats good enough for me
and as above the inspector brings out all equipment now to measure toe out etc etc
why are springs going to kill me?
enlighten me
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DarrenW
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 03:08 PM |
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It would be an interesting discussion if the testers have got wise to the pressure and toe out 'fix'. i dont recall anything in the book
about geometry settings, but seeing as the tyres can be bald i very much doubt hard new tyres are any less dangerous.
No discussion needed on here (hijack etc), just raising a point. At the end of the day i do accept that the testers have some lattitude ref whats
written and whats not so it wouldnt surprise me, especially as we already recognise those settings are potentially dangerous on the road anyway.
And onto another point - what are the locostbuilders users names of the various UK SVA testers??????? i wonder if any of them have posted or just sit
in silence in the background?
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Hellfire
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 03:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Maradona
If you dont want to die, dont even think put springs to the rack.
The only way to fix the problem is ad more castor angle.
If you want a example of self centered direction, U can watches the front bracket of a bicycle.
I hope you excuseme to my English level.
Regards
[Edited on 5/6/06 by Maradona]
Just a few supefluous adjectives there... let's not get over zealous!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 03:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
quote:
Originally posted by Maradona
If you dont want to die, dont even think put springs to the rack.
The only way to fix the problem is ad more castor angle.
If you want a example of self centered direction, U can watches the front bracket of a bicycle.
I hope you excuseme to my English level.
Regards
[Edited on 5/6/06 by Maradona]
Just a few supefluous adjectives there... let's not get over zealous!
Hes probs qualified to be over zealous being from Argentina. probs also getting nervous about being thrashed again in the World Cup by our
boys!!!
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nitram38
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 03:12 PM |
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All I will say is that I am glad I took a little more effort to remake my top bones and ended up with a driveable car that needs no post sva
modifications.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 03:32 PM |
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Ditto
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Maradona
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 03:47 PM |
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Sorry, sometimes my English is bad and I lose some key word, I want to say that to make the direction self centrante it is necessary to have good
caster angle.
I interpret, you are thinking to add springs to the steering rack, but again soory about my english
About the world cup, never your boys put us nervous, you have a good theam
we too. we will see what happens
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muzchap
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 04:40 PM |
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Hmm he's not as nervous as the
REAL MARADONA going through customs
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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Dusty
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 04:45 PM |
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No self centering is a real pain on a long journey and a help when cornering. I have to believe MK never visit this site and no one has ever phoned or
visited them to complain. It's just inadequate design and to still not have corrected it is grossly negligent.
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muzchap
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 05:10 PM |
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My mate had the same problem on his Luego Velocity.
He got the suspension/camber/castor angles set-up correctly using some good equipment (just needs corner weights now) and it has improved the
situation massively.
Agreed no self centering is a pain - especially in a RWD car where sometimes the quickest way to straighten up is to let go of the wheel completely -
if you're getting a bit over zealous with the backend!
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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zetec7
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 05:30 PM |
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The whole idea of adding caster angle is to create self-centering WITHOUT toe-out, hard tires, springs, etc. Add in 6-10 degrees of caster (top bones
1/2" to 1" further back than the lower bones) and it will centre like it's supposed to.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 5/6/06 at 05:55 PM |
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make it right to start with, springs are a bodge of the very highest order, why do that then take them out and have a car that doesn't drive
properly, you want self centreing for your own driving pleasure, not just to satisfy a crappy test.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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