carnut
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| posted on 23/5/03 at 12:06 PM |
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Willwoods or bike brakes
Ive been thinking about trying to get the unsprung mass down on my blackbird indy. Im going to remake the uprights and want to replace the brakes.
Ive been thinking of using either willwood dynalites or getting the calipers and disks from one of the superbikes. The bike calipers should be very
light and there shouldnt be much of a problem mounting because im remaking the uprights anyway.
Any thoughts.
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timf
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| posted on 23/5/03 at 12:34 PM |
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willwoods
dont use the bike brakes.
1> the weight if a locost is greater than a bike hence more heat generated and discs won't be thick enough
2> making bells for the discs is a pain
3> bike discs are designed to be in air not surrounded by wheels.
basically don't do the bike brakes, BEC cars are fun BBC (bike Braked cars) are fun untill they break usually at 70.
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James
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| posted on 23/5/03 at 01:24 PM |
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Carnut,
It's something I've thought of doing and might well do (if practical) for my next car!
I think he's off sick at the mo but try a mail to Rorty (down in Oz) he builds his own uprights with bike callipers and custom made discs he has
laser cut.
Timf,
The weight is approximately double that of a superbike (judging by my friend's blackbird)- but then you've got four wheels and four brakes
instead of two!
I'm sure it's not as simple as that- there'll be efficiencies with lighter weights but even so.
Just my 2p worth of guess work!
Cheers,
James
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timf
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| posted on 23/5/03 at 01:38 PM |
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how you going to hand brake the back 2 ?
but seriously if you look at roty's site and look at the brakes he only uses the calipers and in this link
http://forum.locostbuilders.co.uk/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=4405 he says to make up spaces for the calipers ok if you got a milling machine also the
bolts that hold the calipers are long and high tensile = expensive if you can get them
i had a honda rc30 and managed to warp the discs stopping from 140mph on the a12 due to the heat build up. Try them if you want but be prepared for
some eventful times.
how dod you say to the insurance company my bike brakes failed due to to much heat and i had to use the car infront as an emergency brake ?
[Edited on 23/5/03 by timf]
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James
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| posted on 23/5/03 at 02:22 PM |
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Oh, ok then.
Pity, 'coz I quite fancied the idea! Especially when I saw how much Willwoods cost. 
I've read that post but in other's I'm sure I saw Rorty talking about getting discs made up- I remember him talking about having
them in a cauliflower shape so as to 'shave' off any oddities in the pad.
Interesting about your discs warping. These days with so many bikes being capable of such high speeds are they meant to be readily disposable?
Doesn't sound cheap! Or are they made of something more heat capable these days?
When it comes to the spacers, well, I guess if your're making your own hubs spacers aren't too hard!
I'll worry about it another time- like when I'm a little closer to finishing this car- let along doing the next one!!!
Cheers,
James
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timf
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| posted on 23/5/03 at 02:38 PM |
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james
when i had an rc-30 it was the dog's bollox at the time for 750 squid you could get a race pack from honda to take it upto 750 superbike
standards, abd they didn't uprate the brakes in that kit.
the discs warped because i saw pc plod with his radar gun and pulled on the brakes hard. in those days if you were overtaking the radar guns
couldn't differentiate between thing and i got away with it. who says progress is good !
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Rorty
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| posted on 24/6/03 at 05:10 AM |
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timf:
quote:
if you look at roty's site and look at the brakes he only uses the calipers.... he says to make up spaces for the calipers ok if you got a
milling machine also the bolts that hold the calipers are long and high tensile = expensive if you can get them
"roty"?
The callipers visible on my site are just small ones (long course off-road racing), used in their entirety . The ones I was referring to (no pics
I'm afraid), are of the 4 pot (or even 6 pot!)superbike variety, and when set up with a newly milled inner segment (with extended bridge to
accomodate a 8mm-10mm thick disc), will stop a sub 500kg car pretty damned quick!
When fast tarmac-driving, a couple of Queens Birthday Weekends ago, I didn't notice any disc warpage, even with 8mm discs, as there is a fair
amount of cooling air around them.
The necessary bolts aren't overly long, and are an off-the-shelf 10.9 item.
Each to their own, but I can highly recommend bike brakes if they're set up properly.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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timf
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| posted on 24/6/03 at 12:35 PM |
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rorty sorry for the typo
as i read your reply you are not using the discs from a bike ie spaced for a 8-10 disc
most bikes i've had have 5-8 mm thick disks also when i broke a caliper bolt i found it very difficult to get one as they are high tensile and
fine pitch threads. but i could be wrong and stand corrected.
Tim
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ned
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| posted on 24/6/03 at 12:49 PM |
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when i get there and can afford it i'll go willwood route. approx £125 corner for calipers IIRC. will start with standard sierra to get on the
road though.
Ned
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Wadders
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| posted on 24/6/03 at 07:10 PM |
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Iv'e used bike brakes on the back of my car, with willwoods up front, can't comment on the longevity of the bike disks as i'm not on
the road yet, but one thing that is a problem is space, bike disks are BIG, i'm using CBR600 front rotors and the calipers are approx 3mm off
the inside of the wheels , which are 15" infact i had to shorten the bleed nipples cos they touched. originally i was going to use bike calipers
allround, but the back ones took so long to fit,that i thought sod it and bought wilwoods for the front.
Wadders
i]Originally posted by carnut
Ive been thinking about trying to get the unsprung mass down on my blackbird indy. Im going to remake the uprights and want to replace the brakes.
Ive been thinking of using either willwood dynalites or getting the calipers and disks from one of the superbikes. The bike calipers should be very
light and there shouldnt be much of a problem mounting because im remaking the uprights anyway.
Any thoughts.
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Rorty
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 01:57 AM |
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Timf:
quote:
when i broke a caliper bolt i found it very difficult to get one as they are high tensile and fine pitch threads.
You're correct, they are metric fine (either M6 X .75 or M8 X 1),. As for length, At the designing stage of the new inner caliper segments, I
make sure the bolt seat accomodates a standard length bolt.
Wadders:
quote:
a problem is space, bike disks are BIG, i'm using CBR600 front rotors and the calipers are approx 3mm off the inside of the wheels , which are
15" infact i had to shorten the bleed nipples cos they touched.
When I make up the new inner segment, I re-site the bleed nipple onto the inside face of the caliper, and/or I re-site the feed hole onto the face,
and fit one of the banjo bolts that are available with a bleeder in their ends.
It's not really feasible to mount standard 4 or 6 pot bike calipers in their standard form, as the position of the bleeder and banjo bolt will
almost certainly interfere with the wheel rim...even with 15" rims. The ungainly mounting lugs on the bike calipers really throw the caliper
off, which is why I re-make the inner segment. It's not too dificult or expensive, and the gains are good; super light weight, imense stopping
power, and availability of a large variety of road and race pads.
Incidently, there are banjo bolts available (single and double) with built in brake switches too, in both imperial and metric sizes.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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