locosaki
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 02:56 PM |
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Ally uprights & hubs
I'm now nearly ready to put the front end of the car together and I'm trying to decide,Is it worth spending more money getting ally
uprights/hubs to try and reduce the unsprung weight or am I aswell sticking with orginal cortina cast ones ??
Is there a big weight difference between the 2 set ups ??
I'm trying to keep the weight of the car down to a bare minimun but I don't want to go throwing money at it for the sheer hell of it
!!!
Cheers Mike
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 03:08 PM |
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Any saving on unsprung weight will make the car handle better but ask yourself a couple of questions 1st.
Will you drive it hard enough to notice the difference, and are you like me carrying a few extra personal kgs that could be removed a lot cheaper than
spending mega bucks to save a couple of kilo ?
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russbost
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 03:09 PM |
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Largely depends on what use you're intending to put the car to. If it's road use & the odd trackday or 2 then I feel you'd be
wasting your money, you'd never notice the difference. For any serious competition use it's a case of every little helps, so you've
virtually got to do it. Obviously this is IMHO
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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locosaki
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 03:16 PM |
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Thanks for the replys guys.
The car is mainly for track days and road use,I was basically trying to save as much weight as possible but if there is very little gains to be had I
will give the ally uprights a miss.
Thanks again guys
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 03:20 PM |
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Not sure on the weight saving on the cortina upright set up,but this sierra replacement set up saved me a total of 11kgs on the front end,not sure if
most people would notice any real difference,but they do look nice .jpg)
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 03:21 PM |
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don't be put off, its your car, but I would look for bigger weight savings for less money 1st, eg, wheels, seats, battery, floor and a diet ?
edit to add, weight savings on sierra uprights are much larger than those to be had on cortina set ups
[Edited on 28/12/07 by Jon Ison]
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Benzine
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 03:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by PAUL FISHER
Not sure on the weight saving on the cortina upright set up,but this sierra replacement set up saved me a total of 11kgs on the front end,not sure if
most people would notice any real difference,but they do look nice
Yeah they look great, where did you get them?
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locosaki
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 posted on 28/12/07 at 03:30 PM |
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Certainly does look good
I have just got a set of 13" minilites,they are mega light compared to what was on,I have also just changed to the light weight fibreglass seats
and fitted a bike battery.I will have to see where else I could go about saving a few KG !!
I'm using an older GPZ 1000 engine I realise this is heavier than the newer units but I have no intention on pulling it out !!!
Mike
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 03:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
quote:
Originally posted by PAUL FISHER
Not sure on the weight saving on the cortina upright set up,but this sierra replacement set up saved me a total of 11kgs on the front end,not sure if
most people would notice any real difference,but they do look nice
Yeah they look great, where did you get them?
Bought them from MNR ,and I am going on a diet in the new year,to make sure Ive not wasted my money
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procomp
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 04:05 PM |
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Hi on the cortina setup it has been proved many times that the difference in the upright between std and the ali versions is negligible . The saving
is in the hubs ect. And as yet non of the ali versions has proved reliable or been tested except the westfield ones and maybe the raldes ones if now
available but still no real weight saving on the actual upright weight.
Cheers Matt
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RazMan
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 04:41 PM |
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The alloy ones have rather sketchy specifications and there seems to be a weight limit of 750Kg bandied around by some people. As the weight saving is
very small when compared to the 'full fat' Cortina version, I would be inclined to get the alloy hubs and some light rims.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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Uphill Racer
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| posted on 28/12/07 at 05:34 PM |
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PAUL your top wishbone looks dangerous from the view in pic. 
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procomp
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 12:13 PM |
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Hi yep the top joint on the new mk has the exact same problem as the old one in that the angle of the joint dose not allow full articulation IE the
joint runs out of travel before the damper dose. Quite amazing they havent corrected that problem considring how bad a flaw it is.
Cheers matt
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 01:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi yep the top joint on the new mk has the exact same problem as the old one in that the angle of the joint dose not allow full articulation IE the
joint runs out of travel before the damper dose. Quite amazing they havent corrected that problem considring how bad a flaw it is.
Cheers matt
To be fair that depends on how much travel your dampers have before been fully closed, most come with or can be fitted with bump stops ?
Fit the wrong spec (travel) dampers to any car and that could be the case ?
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procomp
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 03:08 PM |
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Hi perfectly right Jon you can fit bump stops to restrict the amount of travel to less than inch to correct the fact that the manufacturer has made
such an incompetent job of the suspension in the first place.
Give me strength it's like returning back to the industry 20 years ago. Most manufacturers learn from there mistakes not continue to copy them
again and again.
Cheers Matt
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 03:14 PM |
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Ive not looked close enough so cant comment on what I've seen cos I ain't seen it, but you telling me there is only one inch of suspension
travel before the top ball joint "locks"
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procomp
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 03:25 PM |
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Hi Depends on your ride height but basically it's the same as before and yes people have expressed concerns about the problem before.
Cheers Matt
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procomp
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 03:55 PM |
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Hi as can be seen here in this picture when the suspension is at full droop the top joint is in its ideal mid articulation. So when at static ride
height or in bump the top joint is reaching it's limits of articulation. However the push rod is not connected in this picture but can clearly
be seen in the pic of the same car/setup above.
New inboard setup.
.jpg) [/img]
And a link here to a pic of the original outboard setup.LINK
Cheers Matt
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 04:04 PM |
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Ive not seen it in the flesh so cant comment, but that's a lot of effort gone into your reply.
Is it at full droop ? Is that a jack under the upright ? I dunno but could be, whatever I don't own one anyways.
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procomp
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 04:11 PM |
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Hi " A lot of effort " Not really but you have to feel sorry for the guys that spend all there hard earned cash and then put there
effort in to building one only to then realise it's got some serious issues with the basic design. Now that is a waste of some hard work and
effort.
Cheers Matt
EDIT to change hard work to effort in the quote.
[Edited on 29/12/07 by procomp]
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JoelP
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 04:31 PM |
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you're making valid points matt, but id raise 2 points myself!
have you measured the new version to see if it is *actually* suffering from the same problem? Or are you assuming that because it looks the same as
old one it too will lock?
And, have any actually failed?! I know, thats a lame argument since theres no substitute for a good reliable design, but running out of travel by a
few mm of bending in the joint isnt the end of the world on a road car, unless it literally falls apart! The initial result would be sloppy joints.
Most road users would never even know if it ran out of travel!
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JoelP
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 04:33 PM |
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anyway i thought uphill racer was refering to the bend in the back leg!
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procomp
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 04:42 PM |
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Hi yes it has been seen and yes it has happened many times where the joints have run out of travel and either bent or as you say gone sloppy.
Wheres the line drawn between a potential accident about to happen and a death occurring due to poor design that was not necessary . MK have had this
pointed out to them long ago in the past but nothing has ever been done just passed over without concern. So yes it hasn't happened AS YET but
how long till it dose. And why has it nether been given any attention.
I think i have pointed out my concern and will refrain from further comment. But it can clearly be seen as a problem with potential drastic
consequences.
Cheers Matt
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 05:45 PM |
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All those pretty pics of fancy uprights.
Has anyone yet sighted a verifiable testing certificate for any of them, Rally Design included?? Methinks NO is the answer for all.
And those pretty gold steering arms! You are trusting your life to that little weld holding the arm onto that boss with the bolt through it!
No worries, it won't be long before SVA and MOT will find them all and put them off the road until proper industry testing is done and
certificates of testing are produced.
The industry hasn't changed in 20 years, just produced prettier parts that are still as dangerous as what was around way back.
Cheers,
Syd.
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Peteff
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| posted on 29/12/07 at 07:00 PM |
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I've always wondered about the tilted balljoint using up travel which you will probably need.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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