hellbent345
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 12:18 PM |
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new upright design, college project
Hi everyone,
we have to do a year long project at college on the engineering course that i am doing, and i decided that i would do a front upright to fit onto the
average self built haynes roadster/locost. I have the choice oof designing either the more expensive, machined upright/exotic material perhaps or of
doing a design that the diyer can fabricate in home workshop. for me now, i think im leaning towards the more expensive machined upright, developing a
design the diyer can give to a competent machine shop and they will do it. what would anyone on here like to see from a suspension design? anyone
currently posting have any pointers on which way to go with the compromises? i will also be redesigning the wishbones and therefore pickups as part of
the package. I will need to use standard items, these will be the shocks (what are the most cost effective sets of these, and where can i get them?)
balljoints top and bottom (best to use transit and maxi?) ford fitment stud pattern and some form of bearing. Does anyone have any information/CAD
files on :
a standard ford offset wheel
a normal protech shock
transit / maxi / any other type of commonly available ball joint
escort mk2 steering rack (or other type if there are better available still in lowcost bracket)
Of particular need at the moment is drawings of a wheel hub to upright fitment, ie how the insides of the stub axle bearing and housing go together so
i can design both the upright and the hub/stub axle to be machined to fit currently available bearings.
I am going to be machining this design rather than buying any off the shelf hubs, but i will be buying the above mentioned standard items so
suggestions on what to buy would be greatly appreciated - the sooner i buy them the sooner i can reverse engineer them and get some meaningful stuff
to use!
Thanks everyone i hope there are some guys who can help me get distinctions 
Al
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 12:44 PM |
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My first spanner in the works is it’s not that difficult to get uprights for locosts since ones from McPherson strut cars are very easy to convert
even if cortina bits dried up. Add to that the cost of a machine shop milling away most of a block of steel, there goes your £250 already! 
Fabricated is ok so long as budget welders are up to it, welds are good and someone makes a complex jig just to hold it together, it’s one thing
making an engine mount but an upright is something else.
Mind that wishbones can’t be designed by themselves, they have to work with a chassis and with all the other aspects of a car, ie a complete locost
chassis. Where are you going to get spindles that suit the hubs that can also be attached (hopefully not just by welding) to the uprights? Dodgy
companies were doing just that when producing lowered spindles for the aircooled vw’s, apparently they tended to snap off! 
Think too about caliper and disk mounting, plus getting a wheel over the whole thing (most seem to like girly 13 inch wheels btw)
On a more helpful note, protect dampers are quite popular and good value. Watch for bump steer if using the escort rack.
hope this is some help...
Aye, oops a mighty lack o' pirate speak thar, to the plank with me I deser'e it!, argh!
[Edited on 19/9/08 by Mr Whippy]
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mr henderson
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 12:45 PM |
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IS there any reason why you can just get a cortina assembly and reverse engineer it?
The maxi balljoint is desirable because with a 2 wishbone design the the weight of the vehicle is presented to the upright at the lower balljoint,
whereas virtually all modern lower balljoints are designed to just locat the upright (weight goes through a macpherson strut)
John
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JAG
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 01:16 PM |
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The best, most popular way will be to design a fabricated replacement for the Ford Cortina upright that utilises an off the shelf hub unit and mates
to the standard suspension design.
That way you can be assured of maximum compatibility with cars currently out there - assuming you may want to sell a few at some date. Or maybe just
sell the plans.
I would be interested in buying a set of plans for a Ford Cortina replacement upright.
When I say replacement I mean with improved suspension performance but that will bolt straight into the standard suspension - if that's
possible.
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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D Beddows
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 01:23 PM |
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I take it you've read through the 'New Locost front end....' thread ?
Clicky and most other threads by 'Rorty' tbh which should tell you
pretty much all you need to know. Personally I wouldn't have chosen this as a project - as mentioned above there isn't exactly a shortage
of uprights, it's just that people want them for £1.50  I know I'm being negative but read the threads and you'll see some of the
issues that go with doing this!
As for the CAD models there is a sticky thread at the top of one of the forums on here that links to a bit of a CAD library that has pretty much
everything you asked for
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Mal
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 02:40 PM |
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Don't forget that there are laser tube cutting machines that will accurately cut complicated angled holes through tubes and allow you to combine
the benefits of CNC accuracy combined with the relative cheapness of fabrication.
See: blmgroup.org.uk website
HTH
Mal
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hellbent345
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 03:33 PM |
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the end aim of the project is to design an upright and bones to replace the cortina and other such uprights that have have loads of problems inherent
to the design, so i dont want to make an exact replacement, i want to make one with geometry suited to the locost chassis, with superior
characteristics to the 'make do with available cast uprights', also lighter than available uprights and with more adjustability- so the
target market would be the more track day focused, as the currently available uprights are quite expensive, made from alloy and prone to fatigue
cracking. i dont have enough money to buy a cortina upright and reverse engineer the bits i need, as i wont be using the cortina settings and arent
cortina bearings going to be getting more scarce and a bit old hat soon?
rorty has already done a design for a plate upright that replaces the cortina one, so ill be going the more expensive route appealing to track day
enthusiasts who want good flexibility reasonable cost, and it not to need replacing every five minutes.
however i do understand that an easily fabricated replacement for the cortina upright is a big demand, especially if its light, but i think rortys
already done that?
al
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Ivan
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 04:55 PM |
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Go for it - if you get the geometry right to suit a good selection of easily obtained wheels with the right PCD and the right weight i think there
will be a lot of interest.
Also cheap and easily obtained bearings will be a big plus.
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hellbent345
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| posted on 19/9/08 at 10:16 PM |
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have you got any suggestions for bearings that would be cheap easily obtainable, strong and easy to machine a housing for?
thanks al
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prawnabie
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| posted on 21/9/08 at 12:26 AM |
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Just found this if its of any help
Clickety Click!
Cheers
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hellbent345
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| posted on 22/9/08 at 07:39 AM |
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that is useful thankyou
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 22/9/08 at 10:31 PM |
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For the Brisca F2 championship they run with Cortina geometry uprights, but produced from thick sheet metal.
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