if you look in my profile you will discover that i am 15. i have completed various projects such as a peugeot engined single seater.

i was going to build a locost in the garage at home with my parents and to begin with they were in support of the idea but when it came to actualy start the project, out came the comments like "its not going to be safe" and "you dont have the skills to build it" and "you dont have the money" the last two are rather incorrect a) ive done a simmilar projects before that i saw to the end and B) ive got £1500 in the bank now and i get £50 a week on my weekend job. given the fact is going to take a fair few years to build so if i stick to the "locost" philosophy i should be ok

so now im not allowed to build one... as the title says: im a bit depressed about it all

i dont realy know why ive posted this lol

matt

these are little hurdles that non believers throw in your way. Do not let them get you down. You can do anything (technically not, at least til you move out!)

Just plan and plan, and argue/haggle with them!

the annoying thing is they say i can build a kit but i havent got the money for that lol

matt

Plan B:

Spend the next few years collecting all the bits to make your car - refurbish them, generally make them ready, rebuild an engine, and so on.

When the time comes, you'll have everything you need to make a really good job, and will have learnt a lot in the process.

Don't lose the enthusiasm - just re-direct it!

David

quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
Plan B:

Spend the next few years collecting all the bits to make your car - refurbish them, generally make them ready, rebuild an engine, and so on.



David

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Hi one thing your parents cant argue with is you trying to further your education.

And by building from scratch you will learn far more than by just building a kit with a build mannual.

May also be woth showing them this site to show that there are plenty of people also doing the same thing and that theere is a sanctury to ask questions and recive answers from people who will have already come across all the problems you may encounter.

cheers matt

Cant u buy a part built one and then strip it right down and rebuild it how u want.

I would think they don't trust u welding one and getting the geometry right

They might come round if you find a mentor, i.e someone to oversee the project and give your parents reassurance that what your doing is safe and up to standard, If you can find someone local, that has actually built a roadworthy car, your folks might see the project in a different light. Maybe someone on this list can help?
Maybe they're actually worried about you devoting time to car building rather than exams etc?
Al.



Originally posted by novacaine
the annoying thing is they say i can build a kit but i havent got the money for that lol

matt

i got a link through this site to a guy fairly local to me selling a chassis, 1.3 xflow and a type 9 geatbox for £180 on eBay

suspension brakets already welded

but they still said no,

i told my parents that i would put the project on hold around exam time so i got the grades but im not exactley stuggling with my grades i average A to A* with little or no revison so on that front i realy cant see why they would object,

the idea about the "mentor" is great, im almost certain that if someone would be willing to oversee my project they would let me go ahead.

ill make a new post to see if anyone local to me has build, thanks for the tip


Matt

Since they are ok with a kit, but not something you've welded up yourself I'd suggest getting yourself on a welding course. Presuming you do ok you get a certificate that shows you can weld safely - drag them along to the last class and hopefully you can get the instructor to tell them you are up to the job.

If they won't bite (and I suspect if they are anything like my parents the idea of a kit will start attracting similar comments when you tell them you're about to order) there isn't much you can do beyond taking David's advise and getting everything ready to go.

p.s. a chassis welded by a monkey would have been safer than some of the mini's I owned whilst young

If it's a safty issue with this type of car there are plenty of video's on the net of some horendeous crashes with people walking away with no injury's.

Also if they are woried about you using it on the road then possibly try the tack of building one purley for trackday use wich would also make it a lot cheaper to build as only the bare basics are required. Except for transporting it to a trackday.

Not to mention they could also have fun using it on trackdays and all without the worry of ussing it on the unsafe roads if that is there point.

cheers matt

quote:

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Originally posted by iank
p.s. a chassis welded by a monkey would have been safer than some of the mini's I owned whilst young

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And ,you can tell your dad ,that when you've finished , he can be the first to drive it.
Have a word with Tom Windmill , only just 17 , and on his second Indy, with a little help from dad.
But i would be patient, you've obviously got the drive and some of the skills needed, but age is against you, save up your money, then when your 16 , you can say your building your first car. Good luck.



[Edited on 27/1/07 by roadrunner]

15 years old and he earns more than me!!

I'm in Werrington and built a my Locost from scratch as my 2nd welding project (1st project was a trolley for the welder).

I'm more than happy to come and round and show your folks what a kid with a welder is capable of


Screen1


Installed 1

andy, that would be brilliant, i'll have a word with the ol' parents and i may well be sending you a U2U in the near future, thanks ever so much

Matt

quote:

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Originally posted by novacaine

but i like the idea about going on a welding course, can you think of the kind of place i could go, my local college offers courses but they cost £450 which will pretty much desimate my budget

thanks

Matt

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Have you bought the book? It was written by a bloke who used to run a course at a high school / college.

Now if i was your parent i'd have lots of worries about you doing this. Some of them are,

its not safe - nope, it certainly aint, someones posted tonight on how he's burnt / cut himself. Prove to them your responsible (no idea how) and can be trusted not to hurt yourself.

you'll build something that isn't safe. Get them to read the book - its realitively safe if you know what your doing with a welder, so , learn to weld, get certified (good skill to have and it gives you something to fall back on, perhaps summer jobs between university academic years - that should impress them).

You'll change your mind in 6 months and they'll be left with a garage full of crap. Sorry, you'll have to persuade them on this one. Seriously, you're doing it locost so expect this to take YEARS. A lot of people have been building for a long time, i'm on year 6! what where you doing 3 years ago, what did you want to do with your life? Are you really that dedicated? I certainly wasn't at 15 and i can't remember anyone who was.

You'll make it and drive like a nutter and kill yourself. Again, on your own here a bit, but you could maybe do a deal, summer only car, small engine (for now). Explain to them, that when you've finished (around your 18th birthday) you'll have all girls gagging for a ride - which is your motivation.

1500 pounds isn't a lot to build a locost, but it is do'able. I suspect another worry is ALL your money is going to go into the car. No more new clothes for the next few years, no going out, no discos, crisps, magazines. When you get to 17 / 18 no first holiday with your mates. You just won't have the cash. So think of all the stuff you've bought in the last year - do you really want NONE of it?

Do they have any past history to base their worries on, what happend to the single seater? (and lets see some pics)

Ok, ok, i'm being harsh, but i'm trying to present views your parents probably have. Hopefully you're open minded enough to read this and think - i can see there concerns. You then have to seriously think about them and make a LONG TERM decision.

At the end of the day - remember this, your parents feed and protect you. Don't p*ss them off too much & there are often ways around the problem. Ever through of buying an old banger, doing it up and selling it for profit? Helps show your parents you're responsible (it would have to pass MOT), have the interest, make you some money (and not cost too much from the start), teach you lots of skills and maybe help convince them in 6 months when you still want to build the locost and just happen to have an engine / gearbox / steering column / diff in the back of the garage that .... maybe father and son should do something together

My welding course cost 80 pounds.

I know this all seems tough, but your parents honestly have your best interests at heart. This doesn't mean they are right but as i've grown older its surprised me to realise often they are

quote:

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Originally posted by iank


p.s. a chassis welded by a monkey would have been safer than some of the mini's I owned whilst young

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MikeR,

to be honest, the harsher, the better, if i can see all the possible problems i can think of solutions to them. as for the idea of not having any spare money, i can put up with that to a certain extent but to "supplement" my income i am working on an eCommerce website, selling car performance parts, (like nitrous that i previously posted about) and some chavvy parts unfortunatley but i hope that it makes some money.

it has been said and i know that they've only got my best interests at heart and i can fully understand thier concerns, i now just have to find a way to perswade them to change their minds, i may well be 15 but im not realy the kind of person that stamps their feet, swears (general teenager sterotype) just to get my own way.

when im 16 i hope to get some more hours down the shops to get even more money.

as for the single seater, ill try to get some pics, it was a school project with my mates after school, i dont know if school has sold it yet but if they havent i'll try to get some pics. i cant actualy belive i havent taken any...

[Edited on 27/1/07 by novacaine]

hello, I'll just put my school teacher hat on for a minute. You clearly are a great chap who is keen to get on with things.
If you intend to go into the world of automotive engineering later in life, building a kit would be a great advantage to you. Spend your money on buying and rebuilding your main components that you'll need for your build.
I totally agree with the welding courses, many will be free to people your age.
Don't get the balance between kit building and school studies wrong. If you work hard, it could lead you into further education courses and higher degree courses. Many forum members have done exactly that. Good luck with your folks, they are thinking of your future i'm sure
If I lived closer to you, I would happily offer assistance.

oh and yes, i do have the book, and the McSorely plans, ive got the new book on order and i have got the book chassis in an FEA to make some improvements

ive called the college up previously and it seems that if i wait until im 16 (march) i can take the courses for free.

i wanted a career in engineering/metallurgy, i have been on work experience at Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines (the place that makes the F1 engines) i was positioned in the design section for a week and the metallurgy section for a week and it was incredible, i watched on of the engines on the dyno, i cant belive how good they are...im going back there in june time too

well im getting side tracked a bit there lol

Matt

[Edited on 27/1/07 by novacaine]

easy, pinch a nice engine and take it from there!

i was contemplating that myself, there quite light engines but i dont think it would fit in a bag....hmmm shame realy lol

How impressive is this young guy!
Don't let anyone steal your dream son.
I wish you all the luck in the world.

From a safety point of view, your Much better off in a locost rather than a Mini. I wrapped a Mini round a concrete post at 50mph. the side impact was so destructive, the gear lever was punched up through the roof. The only thing that saved me and my wife were the two steel framed bucket seats that I had installed.
Insurance for you would be very reasonable too !

thats quite scary to say the least, well anyway the minis are becoming a rare (ish) car now and the prices are reflecting that, i could easily spend more that £2000 in parts alone to restore a mini so that is prety much definatley off the list

Hey Novacaine - don't let anyone discourage you... you have a dream. Without a dream you have no ambition without ambition you have no future. I'm sure your parents are trying the best for you but don't be too harsh on them. It's not you who are misguided. You seem to have lots of motivation as already said - leave on hold the build but prepare for it... it is much easier assembling nice clean shiny parts.
Keep focussed on your school work lad, this will eventually help you in your build. Welding courses incidentally should be free for you at 16... where's the sense I ask you? Good luck and keep living the dream...

Steve

in regards to the peugeot engined single seater i build, ive just called u pone of the guys i build it with, he said school have already sold it but unfortunate but all i can say is it looked simmilar to the car that "cloudy" is building, just without the fancy wheels.

Hope you dont mind me pinching your pic cloudy:

http://www.digital-car.co.uk/wr4/bonnet/v1.jpg

Matt

All I can say is "Don't give up!". If you can't do it now, you'll probably be in a position to do so in a couple of years' time. Do as much learning as you can do for now. The welding course is a GREAT idea IMHO (I had to learn...okay, I'm still learning...the hard way!). Build all the skills you can, and you'll be ahead of the game. And, if you can manage to assemble a collection of important Locost bits on the side in the interim, you'll be very close when the time comes. If you're going to do a scratch build (that's what I'm doing), put lots of time into designing the front suspension, as that's where a lot of people seem to have trouble. You'll be happy you did!

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
you'll have all girls gagging for a ride - which is your motivation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by novacaine
ive called the college up previously and it seems that if i wait until im 16 (march) i can take the courses for free.

i wanted a career in engineering/metallurgy, i have been on work experience at Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines (the place that makes the F1 engines) i was positioned in the design section for a week and the metallurgy section for a week and it was incredible, i watched on of the engines on the dyno, i cant belive how good they are...im going back there in june time too

well im getting side tracked a bit there lol

Matt

[Edited on 27/1/07 by novacaine]

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As a couple have said already, use the time to do a welding and fabrication course. Talk your Dad into signing up as well, he may even like it!.( Also valuable one on one time together as well.) It's a skill that will be with you for life, and improves with experience.

You're only 15, so don't get impatient. My 15 year old is designing a racing dinghy, which he will build with my assistance. Not a lot of difference. His two older brothers were building their own grass track mini's before they were 14, and racing them. My 17 year old has been putting a Locost racer together for a couple of years as well. With a little oversight anyway.

The idea of a mentor has a lot of merit, and is definitely a way forward, for anyone really. The expeience of someone who's 'doneit', is wirth years of hard learning.

Cheers,
Syd.

Havent read all of this thread, so not sure if this has been mentioned. However, tell your parents that in order for the car to be roadworthy, (which is your aim?), then the finshed motor has to go through an SVA. Explain to them what an SVA is, or direct them to one of the sites that does explain what it is.

They should then fully understand that whatever you build will be safe!

As has been said before, dont give up! Nice to see a 15 year old with an ambition! Good luck!

[Edited on 28/1/07 by iiyama]

Well what can I say that's not already been said??
First don't let the dream go. Second how impressed/jealous are all the guy/girls on here that a young man has a job/work experience with Merc racing engines (some if not all of us would kill for a day at the factory) I can imagine it was no walk in the park getting in to that job. Third you've also got a weekend job and are self financing the project.

Seems to me your a mature bloke (beyond your years) and should be encouraged to carry on that way. You could be like the rest of this countries youth smashing windows drinking buckfast damaging cars and property and tying up police time. The only reason for not letting you do the project (if you were my son) would be lack of space or if it meant my car was going to be left in the street.
To often in this country young energy/drive and talent are quashed. A nation of inventors now heading to be a third world country of wasters.
Good luck and don't give up.

Perhaps you should take an analytical approach to this & remember, 6 months may seem an age to you, but its very little time at all when you've got 70 years infront of you.

Tell your parents you'd like to sit down and have a chat with them one night of the week. Explain that you understand they have issues with you wanting to build a car, you'd like to hear these point by point. You intention is to get a list of objections, go away and find a solution to each one. You also accept that some of these objections might take a year or two to solve & your prepared for that.

They'll then come up with a list of things they're not happy about. Some of them will be (in your eyes) completely stupid. You accept them without throwing any toys out of your pram / spitting the dummy. You write them down, stick them to your bedroom door and systematically cross them off as you work round them.

EG1 School grades will suffer - agree to spend 1 hour a night working on school grades. If any grades drop below a 'b' (you said you where currently an 'a' grade student) you stop car work during the week until grades improve. You also agree to do 'a' levels

(the last bit is going the extra mile and showing your parents that whilst your hobby is important, you've realised from all the comments on here education is more important.)

EG2 you're going to make a stupidly fast car and kill yourself. You'll fit a 1000cc fiesta engine (not bike! ) which will give performance equivilent to ?????. If parents pay for driving lessons at 17, you'll fund an advanced driving course and will only drive the car on the road once you've passed.

EG3 the car isn't as safe as a modern car. Sorry, this is true in the respect they'll be thinking - no airbags, pre-seat tensioners etc. You'll use 3" 5point harness (FIA spec) which is just as effective as pre-seat belt tensioners (racing cars don't have pre-tensioners). Also state that unless they are going to buy you a car at 17, you'll only be able to afford an old rusty nova (probably saxo by the time you get round to it). Whilst this may be marginally safer, its handling dynamic will be worse & you won't have as much love for the car, hence won't be as careful.......

etc etc etc

when you come back with all the answers planned out - your parents will probably be a bit miffed. Suddenly they've got to face up to this. In fact, leave it a few weeks before bringing up the idea of a sit down chat. then leave it a couple of weeks before coming back with the answers. It gives them time to settle down, feel less hemmed in / pestered & shows your not giving up. In the mean time - READ. there is lots and lots to learn.

final comment for now -

If you really want this - don't give up, take the long term view.
If you don't really want this - your parents are right to say no and make it difficult.

(lots of us non kit builders who are taking our time have gone through divorces / breakups etc but we all know, we'll get there in the end, for its not how quickly you get there, its how much fun you have on the journey that counts )

final point - be careful about the mentor bit (expect your parents to hit the wall and start climbing). I'm sure everyone on here is decent, but, football coaches / scout leaders etc all have to have police checks for a reason. Some people do try and pray on folks who a little younger & you've just made yourself a target for someone doing a google search.

[Edited on 28/1/07 by MikeR]

Hi,
Why not buy an SVA manual just so you can show your parents how detailed it is. Explain that normal production cars go through a similar test (type approval) except only one or two actually get tested and the rest are assumed to be okay and rely on the quality standards of the manufacturer to ensure that they are.

In your case your car will be seen personally and individually by an experienced engineer. It will probably also be seen by an MOT tester before hand to check basic compliance before SVA. That's two sets of eyes over and above your own. Production cars don't even get an MOT until they are 3 years old!

As has been offered above, get someone with a well built car to come round and show your parents. I'll bet your Dad at least will change his tune and might be able to help you talk your Mum around!!

All the best,
Craig.

your parents sound like my misses, best thing to do is try and compromise with them, say wait until you have finished school before starting

good idea about the list of problems, i'll do that tonight, i understand that pi**ing them off is definatley no way to go about it.

thanks everyone for your comments, this thread has been realy useful, i'll sit down and talk things through, i'll go slowly so im not forcing them to let me but more in the way of gentle perswasion.

im going to make a promise to myself that one way or another, either be it now or in 10 years time that i build a 7.

matt

I agree 100% with MikeR's suggestions - that's a really practical way to approach things.

As for the mentor thing - good advice - maybe if a number of owners drive up together for a cup of coffee then your parents can see finished cars, without things getting 'personal'. Even better, take your dad to a local get-together so he can see the cars without any direct pressure.

Otherwise, if you don't want to force the 'build a 7' issue then restoring/improving a car is a very good and practical option. A mini has been suggested, but a Mk 1 or 2 Escort is also cool, and could be a valuable asset if you do a good job (subtle mods, not chavvy). I'd rather rebuild an Escort than a Mini, mostly 'cos the Escort was the first car I ever drove that had good handling and a nice gearbox!

As others have said: don't antagonise your parents, but find a good way forward with agreement all round. Life will be so miuch easier if you do!

Have fun - you have the right attitude.

David

[Edited on 28/1/07 by David Jenkins]

From the sounds of it, as your parents have no probs with restoring a Mini or the like, their main issue would be the structural integrity of the chassis.

Now you can solve that in a few ways. The first one, buy chassis and wishbones, built the chassis with someone who is a good/qualified welder, get a good/qualified welder to make the chassis or builld it yourself then pay qualified welder to inspec the work after.

Some people have spoken to local colleges to get frames examined too.

On top of that, the SVA manual is a good suggestion. Especially coupled with "If I restore a Mini all I need is an MOT, at least with an SVA its a through test".

Hi Matt

To try and get your dad on side, why not hire him a seven for the day

http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/experience/hire.html

He may even want to build one to

Adrian

I'm impressed with this 15 y.o. boy. he reminds me with 17 trying to construct my first from a VW beetle platform, but no money in the pocket.
I had to wait some 30 years to start one of the greatest dreams of my life.
so I'm one of those who say: "dont let your dreams never die".

but on the other hand its fair to see the point of view of parents. if he was my kid I just put the things on this way: make 18 and you are free to get a driving license and drive your car, but sincerely I agree if he, with 15, can make good weldings, supervised with someone engeneer, he can drive the car safely when he wil be 18.

1st novacaine, as already said, build up the parts...then use Reverse psychology!

As the parts start to clutter up your perants house they will be begging you to put the thing together...it will take up less room!

Also, although I love my soon to be 15 yr son, with your enthusiasm see if your parents would do a swap? I've been trying to get my Son "in to cars" and off his bl00dy PC for ...well 14 yrs...I think he was born with a PC in his hand!
Most children these days would rather spend a sunny day on some form of computer and altho being the garage is not exactly "out door" at least its somthing construtive!!
Saying that I work in I.T. myself and he like writing his own games so it not all shoot um ups...

Good luck and be rest assured in that the guys on here will go out of their way to help...and stranger still...love going out of their way to help..wierd!

:~)
Keep at it you will do it and more importantly if it take you a few years it will be a real head turner.....

[Edited on 18/2/07 by Rossy]

Tell your parents you're saving up for a motorbike instead.