johnq
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| posted on 22/11/10 at 03:22 PM |
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AUTOTUNE GEMINI
Hi , is anyone building or has built an autotune gemini,i would be very inerested in thoughts and findings on this car, all comments welcome,thanks in
advance ,,john,
looks like rain again
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probablyleon
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| posted on 22/11/10 at 04:16 PM |
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Gary and Nick at Bath Performance Cars have one that they use for track days. They're very helpful and chatty, I'm sure they'd be
worth talking to.
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pdm
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| posted on 22/11/10 at 04:21 PM |
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isnt one of the build diary people on complete kit car magazine building one ? they might have contact details ?
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lsdweb
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| posted on 22/11/10 at 05:55 PM |
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Hi John
TimC on here has done some research into these I believe. Try dropping him a U2U. He's off on a round the world trip though so may not reply to
you quickly!
Regards
Wyn
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D Beddows
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| posted on 22/11/10 at 07:55 PM |
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lol TimC bought his kit off me  I would have built it but for a baby arriving and needing all my spare cash (and baby's are better than kit
cars no matter what anyone says  ) Lovely looking cars and Autotune are nice people to deal with - what do you want to know? u2u me if you want?
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 22/11/10 at 08:48 PM |
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I've got one but there are a few problems with me giving you advice:
1, It's my first kit car so although fairly knoweldgable with mechanical stuff I've little to compare this to.
2, I bought it as an unfinished project.
3, I'm really struggling to find time to work on it & as such havnt really done much with it yet (I think I earn somewhat below the average
wage for those on this site but do have a decent workshop so find it difficult to turn jobs down!).
But what I do know is I think the quality seems reasonably good, the welds on the chassis are better than much that I've seen on cars at shows
& workmanship in general seems good but the mould seam joins on the body are going to need a fair bit of work.
I sat in a few seven type & similar cars & found them a bit tight but this seems to have a bit more room (I'm near 6ft & 14 stone so
not massive but bigger than average).
I know the previous owner got helpful information from Autotune.
Mabye more a matter of personal taste but I think they're a fantastic looking little car!
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johnq
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| posted on 25/11/10 at 11:00 AM |
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thanks everyone its a car ime very keen on they seem quite rare, but better still no negative comments, great
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Mike Wood
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 12:09 PM |
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Hi
Does anyone know of an Autotune Gemini project car for sale? (not a new kit!)
Thanks
Mike
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TimC
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| posted on 15/12/10 at 08:00 AM |
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Hello,
Yes, I'm building one although the project, as Wyn suggests, is currently on-hold while I travel. Rather than repeat myself, my blog [Link
below] contains all of my thoughts to date. That said, my build will be pretty atypical as I'm going racing and fitting a bike motor.
Regarding the comments about the mould marks, they can be suppled polished-out but at extra cost. One other fprum member has told me that he had to
cut and adjust the GRP around the rear bulkhead but as far as I've been able to tell, this is not the norm.
Cheers
Tim
(Currently in a 'tinterweb kiosk in Rotorua, NZ.)
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johnq
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| posted on 21/12/10 at 05:49 PM |
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hi tim
enjoy your travels ,i will watch your blog with interest, no rush for me as i am still gathering parts,ie xflow type9 english lsd etc,also saving for
chassis at the same time. thanks for the reply, john,
looks like rain again
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embraboy
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| posted on 21/12/10 at 10:42 PM |
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Hi John,
I'm another who's building a Gemini.
I'm two years in and at rolling chassis stage - close to getting to a running chassis. Was about half a dozen wires away before the snow arrived
a month ago and it's barely been above freezing here since then so I've wimped out and stayed out of the garage.
It's my first kit and I wouldn't consider myself anywhere near an expert!!
Kit is a good basic kit and requires a bit of self fabrication to complete - which is part of the reason I went for it - I didn't want a giant
meccano set that just bolted together. Nothing too demanding just a lot of decisions to make and issues to work through. Lots of adapting parts from
various sources or making them yourself - as I did with a home made heater box. It's all part of the fun!
Oh - and I think it looks gorgeous... in the flesh it looks even better than it does in photos.
One of the reader builds in CKC magazine for the last year or so has been a Gemini and that series is worth a look as well.
Richard, Carolyn and Anthony at Autotune are all great and are worth a call. As well as the kits they run a number of classic sportscars including a
Can Am McLaren which they've run at Goodwood.
Hope that helps!
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johnq
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| posted on 23/12/10 at 01:48 PM |
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thanks
thanks embraboy , looks like your well on your way, get some more photos posted, also i know how cold it is up there as i am a regular to
edinburgh,driving the MEGABUS up through the borders. i will scream for help when i start mine, hopefully this time next year, john,
looks like rain again
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alfas
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| posted on 19/10/11 at 03:36 PM |
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i´m also owning a Gemini. (live axle, x/flow, technically based an an ford escort)
recently i recognized something strange with my rear suspension:
between the axle and the longitudual chassis tube is only around 10mm space.
i marked the area red in the picture.
the picture shows the car during built at the former owner.
coil-platforms completely lowered, therefore the space between chassis and axle is more.
with the body fixed the platforms are set around 50mm higher which automatically brings the chassis tube nearer to the axle, otherwise the wheels
would rub inside the rear wings.
so what is wrong here?
what spring length and spring rates do you have fitted or is there any recommendation from autotune?
comparing this picture here:
http://www.log-rover.co.uk/Other%20motors/1992%20Autotune%20Gemini%20Kitcar/slides/Rolling%20chassis.html
looks similar...also the left side of the axle is slighty nearer the chassis tube than the right side...same as mine.
[Edited on 19/10/11 by alfas]
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TimC
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 09:13 AM |
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Hi
Measured from the lowest point of the chassis at the back, what is the rear ride height?
Also, what offset wheels and size tyres are you using?
As I see it, assuming that the body is correctly mounted, that's the only contributing factors that I can think of.
There are certainly some Geminis with rear tyres tucked right into the arches.
I'd e-mail Richard at Autotune. He's very helpful.
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alfas
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 06:12 PM |
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6x13 minilites (offset i dont know right now)
tyres 185/70R13
the tyres are rubbing NOT outside on the wings...so from the width i´m fine. they are rubbing centraly inside the wings when the axle moves up.
(mostly only when driving with a passenger...which doesnt happen very often)
going down to 185/60R13 would help a little bit but this would make the final ratio shorter, also bring the complete car lower (ground clearance
problems, the shortend oilsump and bellhousing are already very low)
what exactly do you mean with ride height measured from the lowest chassis point?
to where should i measure this height?
[Edited on 20/10/11 by alfas]
[Edited on 20/10/11 by alfas]
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TimC
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 06:29 PM |
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I mean the distance between the road/floor and the lowest point on the chassis.
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alfas
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 06:39 PM |
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the panhard rod bracket looks the lowest. the distance from bottom of the bracket to floor is 120mm
[Edited on 20/10/11 by alfas]
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alfas
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 06:45 PM |
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[img] [/
img]
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TimC
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 07:52 PM |
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Hmmm. I'm struggling to be much help. I've been looking at other examples to see how their tyres fit - I do wonder if you're
running the wrong offset.
I'd certainly e-mail Richard - info@autotuneuk.com
[Edited on 21/10/11 by TimC]
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alfas
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 08:34 PM |
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the offset has nothing to do with my problem.
the problem is the distance between the axle-tube and the chassis.
10mm space for rebound is not enough, even i´ve expirienced on some earlier westfields that there was only 15 to 20mm space..which is also not
enough...but they came like that from the factory.
by the way: i already tried 5.5" 4spoke-revo´s with 185/60r13. the problem with rubbing inside the wheel arches was slightly better but the
bottom of the bellhousing was too near the floor. on the exit of my yard there is a slight step, i always touched the floor with the bellhousing.
[Edited on 20/10/11 by alfas]
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alfas
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| posted on 20/10/11 at 08:43 PM |
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comparing those 2 pictures with mine the cars height look identical:
at front there is a lot of space between the tyre and the wheelarch and on the rear those cars sit quite low. looks realy identical to my car.
the only way to get the chassis tube lower (therefore gaining space between axle and chassis) is to lower coil-platforms.
but than the car sits even lower on the back.
normally the suspension should have a wedge-shape: front lower than back.
but it seems that most autotunes have it different, which is from suspension-theory not correct.
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TimC
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| posted on 21/10/11 at 04:43 AM |
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To my eye, both the yellow car above and the one below sit quite a bit lower than your car. If you lower the car, you will increase clearance over
the chassis tube. However, you will then run into difficulties with the tyres rubbing, agreed?
As such, unless you want to re-engineer the rear set-up, you only have a few options as I see it:
- Change the tyres
- Change the wheels
- Fit stiffer springs and adjust your shock absorbers
1/2 certainly sound potentially more appealing to me than 3 - although with lots of trim etc it is possible that your springs are a bit soft for a
heavier car.
As for the difference in front-to-back ride height i.e. rake, the Gemini can deceive as the front arches are cavernous compared to the rears. You
need to measure the difference in height from the road between the back of the floor and a point on the chassis roughly adjacent to the steering rack
position.
I just read your edited post regarding the other wheels. In that case, to do the job properly, you may need to look at your engine and gearbox mounts
as well and see if if is possible to bring the power train up further into the chassis. Have you e-mailed Richard?
[Edited on 21/10/11 by TimC]
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alfas
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| posted on 21/10/11 at 08:47 AM |
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those pictured cars sit slightly lower as they do NOT use tyres with a profile of 70.
ok, i can lower the car and compensate it by stiffer springs....but this is contrary what a light, live-axled car needs at the back. normally a
(medium) soft set-up is favoured, especially for road use. (there are around 10sylva´s in my area and all are using a soft rear setup, compared to
other kitcars). on the other side i must say that most live-axled westfields i´ve driven had been set very hard on the rear axle, but the downside was
that the axle never behaved so "nice" as on the sylva´s .
i would really like to know what spring-rates autotune recommends. isnt it mentioned in the built manual (if something like that even exists)
changing the wheels is not necessary as i dont have any clearance problems on the outer side of the wings!!
changing from 70 to 60 profile tyres would help a bit, but than the fornt looks like the wheels get lost inside the arches.
to get more clearance for the bellhousng....yeah the engine could be mounted slightly higher....no problem....although the centre of gravity will be
negatively effect with this modification...but i´m not that expert to say if this has a big influance in the roadholding of the car.
have emailed richard, yet.
[Edited on 21/10/11 by alfas]
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Peteff
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| posted on 21/10/11 at 01:32 PM |
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If the axle is coming into contact with the chassis on full droop your dampers are too long, have too much travel.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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alfas
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| posted on 21/10/11 at 05:00 PM |
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the problem is that i dont know which length the dampers/coils should have originally.
comparing built pictures from other cars my dampers look identical.
still have no answer from autotune.
isnt the length mentioned in the built manual? is there existing a built manual?
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