retromods
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 04:35 PM |
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Bike head on car engine
Hi!
Toying with the thought of putting a bike cylinder head on a mini engine block. Todays problem i cant get my head around is the dizzy.
Assuming ive already made the head fit and its bolted on in place, if i got the coilpack for the bike head and its ECU -
Would i be able to run a live wire to the ECU and plug the coilpack in the ECU or would i need to wire the ignition to the ECU? How much wiring to the
ECU would i actually have to do if i couldnt just run a live wire to it? Assume id be better to use throttlebodies rather than carbs - and would it
need any further tuning?
thanks!
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stevebubs
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 04:53 PM |
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Presumably a bmw k series head?
For ignition, you would be (IMHO) better considering something like megajolt for the ignition.
Take a look around the mini forums - has been a popular conversion for ages.
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a4gom
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 04:53 PM |
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Don't know the answer to your question but I believe it's been done a few times with the BMW k1100? Check out the mini forum.
Andy
Perfect planning prevents pi$$ poor performance!
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carlknight1982
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 04:54 PM |
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Go Mega jolt for ignition, if running TB go Mega squirt or Omex for both.
Logic will get you from a A to B
Imagination will take you everywhere.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 04:56 PM |
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For fuelling you have a choice of carbs or throttlebodies...really depends on whether you're of the analogue (do you like fiddly twiddly
mechanical things) or digital (or do you prefer to do it from a laptop) school ...
carbs = analogue
TBs = digital
carbs are arguably going to be cheaper to get running but you could spend a fortune looking for the right mixture of chokes, immulsion tubes etc..
TBs will cost a bit more initially - you'll need an ECU to control them but tuning is a more precise science...
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stevebubs
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 04:56 PM |
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PS if you go for Throttlebodies, consider an integrated ECU like Omex or Emerald rather than separate ones for ignition/fuelling...will make life
easier...
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retromods
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 06:09 PM |
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im on a few mini forums already, the only popular head conversion is the BMW one but its very expensive and there must be others that can be made fit.
ive seen pictures of a CBR head on a mini block, they are cheap and cheeful to experiment with so thats more like what i was thinking.
id much rather run carbs as im no expert with digital (no expert with a spanner either but least theres half a chance  ) but its still sorting the
timing out. only other way i can think of would be to leave the mini camshaft/dizzy in and rig up the head cams to the mini cam via belts?
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will121
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 06:22 PM |
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i looked at doing the bmw k 16v conversion some time ago and whilst a popular conversion if i remember still needed some specialist machiening so to
try fit another motorbike head may seem cheaper but be lot of development and engineering skill to overcome expected issues
link to
info
and another
[Edited on 31/1/11 by will121]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 07:54 PM |
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If the car camshaft is still in place you could use its own A series lucas dizzie ---- might not give the most accurate timing but it would give a
spark
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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retromods
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 08:15 PM |
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im taking it all in and will have a decent look at that link soon (at work  ) but is there any reason why the bikes original ECU + throttle bodys
wouldnt be ok? would using megajolt just 'be better' or would the original stuff be ok?
for tuning i could have it set up somewhere rather than do myself
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 08:23 PM |
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You'll need to retain the original camshaft anyway, it drives the oil pump!
It would be one less thing to worry about while you sort bigger issues, as said it'd give a spark & make it run while you get the main
stuff to work & then sort a coil-pack, megajolt of whatever when it's running OK otherwise?
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retromods
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 09:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hillbillyracer
You'll need to retain the original camshaft anyway, it drives the oil pump!
It would be one less thing to worry about while you sort bigger issues, as said it'd give a spark & make it run while you get the main
stuff to work & then sort a coil-pack, megajolt of whatever when it's running OK otherwise?
yea did think about the camshaft! but no, if i can use the mini dizzy and make it run with carbs untill i can copper up for megajolt (or whatever)
then great..... as long as it would run!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 09:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by retromods
im taking it all in and will have a decent look at that link soon (at work ) but is there any reason why the bikes original ECU + throttle bodys
wouldnt be ok? would using megajolt just 'be better' or would the original stuff be ok?
for tuning i could have it set up somewhere rather than do myself
The bikes original system almost certainly relies on some kind of crank position sensor which obviously won't be present on an A series bottom
end.
AFAIK the the BMW K head was chosen because the bore spacing is pretty much spot on, and the head studs either line up or can be drilled in suitable
areas of the block deck. Is this the case with the CBR?
You can fit a Fiat head though I have to wonder if it would be worth the effort,
and it looks very tall.
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 10:00 PM |
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There is'nt much that aint been tried to make Minis go faster, but there's always summat new aswell! I did'nt have the
skill/know-how or facilities to do something like this at the time so I went down the road that was'nt much travelled at the time & fitted a
different engine altogether, a Montego Turbo, bloody fast in a straight line, but nose heavy
Even if thre are better/more estabished ways to do it like fitting the BMW head I like the fact you're giving it a go & hope you get it to
work.
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Simon
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 10:17 PM |
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http://www.kad-uk.com/
ATB
Simon
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mcerd1
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| posted on 31/1/11 at 11:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by retromods
yea did think about the camshaft! but no, if i can use the mini dizzy and make it run with carbs untill i can copper up for megajolt (or whatever)
then great..... as long as it would run!
megajolt is electronic, but very simple despite that - so simple I wouldn't bother withe the dizzy unless you have one that'll fit already
at its simplest its a few bits of old fords (EDIS4, coilpack, VR sensor and the cables that connect them = £20-30 from a decent scrapyard)
and a toothed trigger wheel bolted on the end of the crank (no more than £20)
thats enough to get it running at a fixed 10deg BTDC
then you add the MJ unit itself ($161.95 + p&p) and that gets you a 2D system you can tune yourself (at least as good as a dizzy without a vac.
advance)
then if you want better drivability / fuel economy you can add a Throttle Position Sensor to make a 3D system (like a dizzy with vac. advance but
better)
most bike carbs have a TPS built in already so its easy 
(thats assuming that you'd get the TPS version of MJ as it suits multi-carb setups)
http://www.autosportlabs.com/megajolte-p-41.html
loads of old threads on this forum about fitting it to all kinds of engines...
[Edited on 31/1/2011 by mcerd1]
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retromods
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| posted on 5/2/11 at 06:51 PM |
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digging this up again...
the bores are the same size and so is the spacing between the bores.... so its a simple bolt on job? (once made holes for bolts anyway) just need
gaskets for compression?
heres what someone has already done before. hes not used the mini cam so has added pulleys for waterpump, oil pump and anything else that mini parts
turned over.... but im wonderin if i could keep it so much simpler. would also mount the radiator up front.
[Edited on 5/2/11 by retromods]
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col
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| posted on 6/2/11 at 06:39 PM |
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Well if you want some serious info,my general manager Dave depper and his son run a mini cooper with a bmw head for hill climbing...and yes they won
their class. it puts out about 170 bhp an about 140 at the wheels.
He bought several heads from a guy in northants who strips single seater bmw hd race cars....very cheap so if your seriously interested i can give
you his number......i wait to hear ye or no....ok?
yours col
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retromods
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| posted on 6/2/11 at 06:41 PM |
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cheers col but ive ordered me a CBR head off fleabay now so will ponder over this one for a while and see what happens if its a no-go then i might
be in touch 
thanks
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col
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| posted on 6/2/11 at 06:59 PM |
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DOH!! okay mate buz me if you change your mind ,Dave did most his own work an is very helpful.......hes on "u tube" if you want to see how
it goes.
Ive seen it at shelsley.......it bl**dy shifts
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