jon_haggerty
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 12:05 PM |
|
|
Chassis floor
I have a big bit of fairly thick (havnt measured the gauge yet) Ali sheet. Can i use that for the floor and rivet it on every inch or so, or should i
go steel and weld it?
|
|
|
|
|
Surrey Dave
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 12:19 PM |
|
|
Ally is fine as long as you do not intend to race the car in Locost series.....................
|
|
|
kb58
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 01:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jon_haggerty
I have a big bit of fairly thick (havnt measured the gauge yet) Ali sheet. Can i use that for the floor and rivet it on every inch or so, or should i
go steel and weld it?
Price-wise it makes sense to use what you have, but when you say "fairly thick" remember you'll forever be dragging that needless
weight around with you. If the car's to be a cruiser it doesn't matter, but if you're looking for every bit of performance
you'd be better off with a thin floor. (Balancing that against the safety aspect too.)
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 01:29 PM |
|
|
Rivit & glue !
|
|
|
BKLOCO
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 02:38 PM |
|
|
You do not need to rivet as close as you are sugesting. 50 - 75mm is about right
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!! 
|
|
|
jon_haggerty
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 03:42 PM |
|
|
its not too thick, just enough so it wont bend etc when i sit in it, when its rivetted. why do they not allow rivetted ally floors in the series? i
think mine will only go as far as track days...
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 03:53 PM |
|
|
ditto rivet and glue, i suspect rivets can wear loose over time. belts and braces 
|
|
|
quattromike
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 08:16 PM |
|
|
Remember to use the correct rivets coz the wrong ones will corrode round the hole and create a big problem . I can't remember but I think
it's as simple as useing alloy rivests as aposed too zinc ones
Although i'm not sure alloy rivets will be as strong as steel ones so you might need to go up a few sizes to get the strenght back
but if you use a really good mastik it shouldn't be a prob.
Mike
|
|
|
iank
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 08:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jon_haggerty
its not too thick, just enough so it wont bend etc when i sit in it, when its rivetted. why do they not allow rivetted ally floors in the
series? i think mine will only go as far as track days...
http://www.750mc.co.uk/racing/formulae/locost.htm
To avoid it becoming a biggest wallet wins formulae the 750 motor club limit the modifications you can make so everyone is on a level playing field.
They chose to force everyone to stick as close to Ron's book as possible, presumably to avoid having to design the car again. Ron chose a weld
in steel floor so that's what you have to use.
The weight difference isn't huge (since you can use a thinner gauge of steel) and the added stiffness of a welded steel floor probably
isn't a great deal more than a decently bonded in ally one. The steel ones can tend to 'boing' when getting in, ally ones
don't.
[Edited on 22/10/05 by iank]
|
|
|
pajsh
|
| posted on 22/10/05 at 09:23 PM |
|
|
Just a thought but is Ali OK for fixing seats to or will you need spreaders?
|
|
|
quattromike
|
| posted on 23/10/05 at 03:27 PM |
|
|
Come to think of it your best bet is stainless rivets stronger than alum ones and wont corrode the alum like steel ones, just make sure you have
plenty of mastik on coz if the steel and alum touch each other it will corrode at ten times the speed as it should, so keep it apart with the mastik
to act like a barrier and you'l be ok
Mike
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 23/10/05 at 11:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by pajsh
Just a thought but is Ali OK for fixing seats to or will you need spreaders?
I wouldn't bolt a seat directly to either an alloy or steel floor. Put a couple of extra tubes in for the seat mounting brackets and you know
it's not going to dump you onto the tarmac at an inconvienient moment.
|
|
|
gazza285
|
| posted on 24/10/05 at 04:50 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by quattromike
Come to think of it your best bet is stainless rivets stronger than alum ones and wont corrode the alum like steel ones.
Your right there, it'll corrode the aluminium much faster.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
|
|
|
quattromike
|
| posted on 24/10/05 at 05:17 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
quote:
Originally posted by quattromike
Come to think of it your best bet is stainless rivets stronger than alum ones and wont corrode the alum like steel ones.
Your right there, it'll corrode the aluminium much faster.
??????
I was under the impresion that alloy next to steel will corrode quickly compared to alloy next to stainless ?
|
|
|
jon_haggerty
|
| posted on 24/10/05 at 09:28 PM |
|
|
Confused now. So what rivets? And what size? I was going to weld in two rails anyway for each seat so thats ok. I was thinking of using a very strong
double sided sticky foam from work (used for sticking body trim to panels, and about an inch wide tape like stuff) and then rivets. Should do shouldnt
it?
|
|
|
caber
|
| posted on 24/10/05 at 10:11 PM |
|
|
Stainless has a higher potential difference than plain steel with alluminium so will corrode the ally faster as a lot of Land rover owners have found
out using stainless steel bolts to hold ally panels on
ally rivets won't corrode too badly against ally sheet. Theoretically the ally/steel junction will remain dry inside the tube specially if you
use sealant between the ally panel and the steel tube. You can also get closed end ally rivets these are better to keep dampness out of the steeel
tube.
Caber
|
|
|
NS Dev
|
| posted on 25/10/05 at 03:02 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jon_haggerty
Confused now. So what rivets? And what size? I was going to weld in two rails anyway for each seat so thats ok. I was thinking of using a very strong
double sided sticky foam from work (used for sticking body trim to panels, and about an inch wide tape like stuff) and then rivets. Should do shouldnt
it?
Use 4.8mm (3/16" Ally rivets, spaced at around 50mm, preferably with a small bead of sikaflex or similar polyurethane adhesive applied first.
If the tape you have is thin (<1mm) then that should also be ok, if it's too thick it will bugger up the job done by the rivets.
Incidentally several people have fixed seats directly to ally floors with no probs, SVA or otherwise.
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 25/10/05 at 04:58 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Incidentally several people have fixed seats directly to ally floors with no probs, SVA or otherwise.
Rather them than me. With those riviets being probably the most exposed to water and also hidden from view, I personaly think it's a bit
foolish to skimp on a couple of rails.
|
|
|
quattromike
|
| posted on 25/10/05 at 05:18 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by caber
Stainless has a higher potential difference than plain steel with alluminium so will corrode the ally faster as a lot of Land rover owners have found
out using stainless steel bolts to hold ally panels on
ally rivets won't corrode too badly against ally sheet. Theoretically the ally/steel junction will remain dry inside the tube specially if you
use sealant between the ally panel and the steel tube. You can also get closed end ally rivets these are better to keep dampness out of the steeel
tube.
Caber
I don't agree with you here as the ally rivets will corrode themselfs slack in the steel box's. I would go with the stainless ones at
least there stronger
|
|
|
NS Dev
|
| posted on 25/10/05 at 10:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Incidentally several people have fixed seats directly to ally floors with no probs, SVA or otherwise.
Rather them than me. With those riviets being probably the most exposed to water and also hidden from view, I personaly think it's a bit
foolish to skimp on a couple of rails.
know what you're saying but remember the harnesses take the forces in a crash, not the floor unless you crash vertically downwards onto your
wheels.
All the westfields that I have been in (all 3 of them!) that had "drop in" seats just had the squabs and backrests dropped straight onto
unreinforced ally.
|
|
|
Rorty
|
| posted on 26/10/05 at 04:17 AM |
|
|
I understand what you're saying, but just bouncing up and down on the ally could cause it to fracture.
The other thing I would be worried about is the (admittedly, unlikely) possibility of some debris on the road being flicked up by the tyres and
impaling the driver. There was a photo of such a trauma doing the rounds about a year ago; a driver was run through by a length of metal or wood that
had fallen onto the road.
In motorsport, there's usually a rule governing the thickness and type of material imediately under the driver's seat for just such
reasons.
I would fit a couple of seat rails for peace of mind and ensure the floor was sufficiently strong too.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
|
|
|
Fred W B
|
| posted on 26/10/05 at 06:03 AM |
|
|
Floor weight
If anyone want to do the maths
Steel sg factor is 8.07, ally sg factor is 2.73. so:
For steel assume 1.2mm floor
For ally assume 2mm floor
If floor was area 1.5 m x 1.0 m, steel weighs 14.53 kg, ally weighs 8.19
Formula is (Area of part in M) x (part thickness in mm) x sg factor = mass in kg
Fred WB
|
|
|
.jpg)
