scutter
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:08 PM |
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BEC or V8?
Collecting parts for the next build, Seeing as i have the option which would be better, BEC or V8?
I understand the benefits of both but I mostly do road miles(10,000 in the last 13 months) but don't want to be put to shame at the odd
trackday.
Also i've a 4.11 ratio Cortina open diff is it going to be able handle the torque of a V8 or shall I throw it in the current locost(X-flow
powered) and use the LSD 3.75 in either the BEC or V8, I originally got itto use in the current car but the open and LSD crownwheel and pinions are
diffrent diameters.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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yorkshire-engines
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:12 PM |
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ZZR 1400 80 KILO 200BHP AND ONLY £3400 COMPLETE KIT
GETS MY VOTE
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marc laptop
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:14 PM |
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small block chevy v8 we measured up the other day and it will fit in one of our cars nicely, possible new demonstrator  also like the zx10 its so
small it looks like a 600 and boy is it light
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Agriv8
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:34 PM |
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I am Biased as I have a sad condition of rover-v-eight-is .
MNR Marc has tried to cure me with trips out in different bike engines but unfortunatly I think the condition is with me for life.
Can see the benefits and Cons of each have a trip in each and sees what floats you boat ( how about that for somone linning up for the boat anchor gag
)
LS6 alloy v8 would make good sense for the v8 route for my monies worth.
All the best agriv8
[Edited on 23/10/06 by Agriv8]
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Agriv8
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
money no object, i'd go for the ls7, 505bhp and dry sumped as standard
if your doing 10000miles a year i'd go for the v8.
chevy's to aim for
ls1 upto 350bhp depending on which car it came from
ls2 400bhp
ls6 400bhp
ls7 505bhp
all blocks are meant to be the same size.
Chris
I think i have just been sick in mi pants 505 dry sumped as standard. if i am really goodboy will santa bring me a ls7 for christmas ?
Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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froggy
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:50 PM |
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as long as you can find a 3.14 or taller diff to siut the v8,s lazy nature anything lower than 3.1 is no good .really the best rover lump is the 3.9
94-96 which doesnt suffer the same liner problems as the later 4.6 but rover boxes are getting scarce and the other options arent cheap. id love to
use the ls1 motor but cant see it being under 5k once you add management etc. you should find a good 3.9 with efi for £600 and a box for around£100
exhausts around £700 and a proper radiator for £150 .so around £1500 for 200ish hp and 220lb/ft
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NeilP
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:51 PM |
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Sorry - have to disagree with both positions 
Decided on the Cosworth V6 instead of the Rover V8 for the following reasons:
Finding a clean RV8 seems to be a lottery - Other forums are littered with tales of woe - The CV6 was only ever on the fat boy Granada and mated to an
autobox which invariably took all the punishment - My engine had 100,000 of which 85,000 FDSH and 15,000 chequered - When we had the top off of it the
cams were immaculate. You can get a clean RV8 from RPI but they'll have £3500 off you for the privilige...
The CV6 will push 195bhp (205 if post 1994) and doesn't seem to loose any with age - Add in some straighter air and better exhaust (without
cats) and you're looking at 210-220 without reaching for the cheque book - The RV8 is 165 book and many do way less than this if they're
grubby due to poor oil flow.
There seems to be a myth that the CV6 was poorly downtuned to 200bhp and can't be improved without major mods - Do a search online for Blue
Steel (twin turbo CV6 - 560bhp) - You'll easily get this to 300 for less than 4 figures.
Weight penalty - Yep, it's a cast block but you'll be using your torque to blast past traffic in 5th whilst the BEC boys are still trying
to drop 4 cogs!
There - Feel much better now!
Off to get some dinner - Will check back later to see if Hellfire's had his twopenneth...
If you pay peanuts...
Mentale, yar? Yar, mentale!
Drive it like you stole it!
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JUD
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:57 PM |
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Dan,
I would say depends on your budget and desired "bang per buck". Lots has been said about BECs on the road. Suggest you come for a
protracted run out in mine to see if the noise/drone etc is too invasive. I would have thought that the lack of creature comforts on mine would be
more of an issue than engine noise - you guys with half-doors!
I always wanted a V8, but after a run out in a F27 Blade a number of years back that all changed!
You intending to sell your current car, or are you starting a collection?
Martin
---------------------
MK Indy Blade
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scutter
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:58 PM |
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MMmmmmmmm V8, being swayed,
Does
THIS
look too good to be true.
Niel, wasn't it keith Duck worth who discribed the V6 as only good for a boat anchor, hence starting the term.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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scutter
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:01 PM |
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Martin, I've been talked into going down to one, but won't give up the first until the second is on the road, (gotta have a fix now and
then)
I'll take you up on the offer next time we meet, it did look mighty inpressive when you launched up the road the other night but I'm not
sure how lnog i'd last doing the miles.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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Simon
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:03 PM |
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Froggy,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VORTEC-5-3-SUPERCHARGED-V8-ENGINE-TRANS-4L60E-LS1-LS2_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ011QQitemZ320039550576QQtcZp
hoto
£2.5 grand before transport and imp duty Complete unit!!!
Neil,
Yeah but you've still got the sound of a V6 Uuuuggghhhhhh
Scutter,
Looks ideal, just it's located in China, and I wouldn't give that place any more money than necessary!
ATB
Simon
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Bouldy
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:04 PM |
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Ive done both had a Blackbird in A mk took it out at the beginning of the year and replaced it with a tuned 3.5 Rover V8.
Best thing i ever did !!!! Bike engines are good fun and best for track use. They are to harsh for everyday driving ,used to drive me mad after a
while the noise and the vibration. V8 so smooth and bags of grunt . deffo better.
Paul.
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smart51
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:13 PM |
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V8s are all torque and don't really suit light weight cars. You'll get lots of wheel spin in the dry and lots of tailspin in the wet.
Bike engines are lower in torque and higher in revs. You can stay in gear for twice as long giving about the same acceleration.
Bike engines are lighter and so steer better and brake better than a V8.
Better to have a good 4 pot turbo than a V8 if you don't want a bike engine.
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JUD
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scutter
Does
THIS
look too good to be true.
Yes.
---------------------
MK Indy Blade
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Bouldy
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:29 PM |
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smart51, I was concerned at first about wheel spin but i can honestly say it is no where near as bad as people think.
Yeh it spins if you nail it of the mark but even so it still goes likes a stabbed rat and is very controllable as long as you have an LSD. To be
honest it wheel spun when i had the blackbird engine not a lot of difference realy.
simple way to get the power down is start off in second.
its the 40 to hundred thats the best BEC are still clucking down the box . foot down in 4th and your gone.
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JUD
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scutter
Does
THIS
look too good to be true.
Yes.
---------------------
MK Indy Blade
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wilkingj
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JUD
quote:
Originally posted by scutter
Does
THIS
look too good to be true.
Yes.
I agree too. His feedback is ZERO, and sending from China...
I wouldnt take the risk, especially with a zero rated seller.
Rover V8 myself. Fully rebuilt, rebore new pistons, all bearings, rocker shafts, Cam, followers, weber carb, all for less than £2k.
There are other good engines, bike engines are a little too "Frantic" for me. I like the laid back torque, and sailing along at 70mph at
2800 rpm, and 6krpm on tap.
It splenty fast enough for me.
I did a 14.85 standing 1/4 mile at SantaPod a week ago, and that included some wheel spin and missing 3rd gear.
95 terminal speed.
I have never been on a track let alone a Drag Strip before, ie complete novice.
MKHellfires ZX1200 does it in 12.752 secs,
OK that's a fair bit faster. but I bet he doesnt miss gears and spin the wheels like I did
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Agriv8
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 08:28 PM |
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I agree that the v8 probably is a bit on the Tourque side for a 7 but Its just a case of controll of the right foot. In the same was the the control
of the steering wheel decides understear.
Just because the engine has it does not mean you have to use it. Anyway its a cold night - lets really warm this up
How many super cars / F1 / Le-mans cars are 4 pots ? Discus
OK I'll admit that these are a long way off a 30 year old rover lump though hasnt it been used open top single seater.
Light blue touch paper and stand back. lets be frendly though we are all entitled to our oppininon
Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Johnmor
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 08:32 PM |
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TORQUE + RESPONSE
If you want something that will give torque and response, then why not look at a V6.
Short block - easy to fit in a locost.
Rev freely- Not lazy like some V8s.
All alloy - At leats three or four choices of engine availiable.
Of course i you want to be exclusive as well then theres only one choice!!!
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Agriv8
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 08:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
If you want something that will give torque and response, then why not look at a V6.
Short block - easy to fit in a locost.
Rev freely- Not lazy like some V8s.
All alloy - At leats three or four choices of engine availiable.
Of course i you want to be exclusive as well then theres only one choice!!!
Johnmore Wich alfa are you on? driven a 2.5 v6 GTV ( original one ) and a 3.0 v6 33 cloverleaf.
both screamers read line somewhere way above what a rover can get to.
And Clarksons rule of 3 to boot.
Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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Simon
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 08:48 PM |
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Yeah John, there was an Alfa powered thing at Brands KCL a week or two back. It was very slow and was smoking quite badly.
But then, the engine was made in Italy
Oh yeah, and it had twin turbos and was still slow
I still prefer a V8, but then my proper car has one too
If you go V8, I'm gonna be chucking in a Jag IRS with a 2.88 f/d r (+LSD), which should make for incredibly relaxed, frugal motoring (till the
turbos come on boost)
This ratio will give very long gearing - eg 3rd gear from 1000 to 5500 rpm equates to 17 to 93 mph! 70 mph will be just under 2500rpm as opposed to
nearly 3500 with the 3.92
Chris,
Slightly OT, but was dealing with Schramm a fairly painless experience? I've watched their ebay ads for a while and they seem quite promising.
U2U if preferred.
ATB
Simon
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Johnmor
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 09:15 PM |
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Alfa Engine
I fitted a 12v 3.0l , red line is around 6000, but gets there very quick.
24v red line is 7000 so would be even more fun.
As for gearing i have a 3.62 LSd and 16" wheels with 50 series tyres so that equates to:
99mph in third at 6000.
124 in fourth at 6000.
145 in top at 6000.
Seems a bit high to me and i might consider a 3.92 diff. I can hardly keep it below 60 as it is. This is 2500 in top and the engine just wants to go
higher.
Simon,
Didnt think Italien engines were a problem, maybe you haven't heard of Ferrari, ( sister company to Alfa).
Mines done 110,000 miles and seems to go ok, no smoke yet.
V8s are for fat Americans to carry the loads from the drive through MacDonalds.
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NeilP
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 09:22 PM |
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John,
Have you put a balancer pipe between the two exhausts?....
Ah! Looked at your build photos - Must scare the b'jesus out of the living dead when you pass them...
[Edited on 23/10/2006 by NeilP]
If you pay peanuts...
Mentale, yar? Yar, mentale!
Drive it like you stole it!
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Johnmor
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 09:41 PM |
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The exhaust goes into a single box under the propshat and then splits to exit the rear, so it sounds pretty good.
Didn't want it sounding like two 3 cylinder engines.
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RazMan
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 10:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
If you want something that will give torque and response, then why not look at a V6.
Short block - easy to fit in a locost.
Rev freely- Not lazy like some V8s.
All alloy - At leats three or four choices of engine availiable.
Duratec V6 with a lightened flywheel to improve the revs a bit and some basic mods like air filter and decent zorst - 200bhp with as much torque -
good soundtrack too
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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