Pdlewis
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 11:54 AM |
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Pinto Timing help nr hinckley
Hello,
Im in need a of a bit of help could anyone spare some time to help me sort the timing out on my pinto?
I have replaced the head gasket and put it all back together no when i start it it will start but doesnt react to any throttle movement. I have tried
readying about setting up timming but its not sinking in :-(
Cheers
Paul
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gregs
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 12:36 PM |
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are you running efi or carb?
If you are getting no responce to the throttle at all, I doubt it's timing..... if the timing were really screwed up, i'd expect it to
stall / cough / fart as more fuel was dumped down the bores.
You sure you've re-connected everything around the throttle cable / carb correctly - can you see the butterfly moving as you apply throttle?
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 12:40 PM |
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Possible advance weights siezed or jammed in the dizzy, will tick over fine but nothing else
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Pdlewis
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 12:40 PM |
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running carb,
can see the butterfly opening and dropping fuel into the inlet
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Pdlewis
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 07:05 PM |
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Spent this afternoon chacking everything is connected up correctly and all seems ok but it wont start now DOH!
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 07:14 PM |
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Was the car running OK before you did the head gasket? Did you take the cam and followers out? no need to but just checking. Have you aligned the cam
and the distributor timing marks as posted before? Are all vacuum hoses etc connected? Does/did the exhaust kick out loads of black smoke? Manual or
automatic choke? Plug leads on in the correct order?. It sounds like something is perhaps not timed up correctly but it's difficult to diagnose
properly without seeing car so check all of the above . HTH.
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car builder
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 09:02 PM |
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hi paul, where abouts are u? might be able to pop over tommorrow night? pintos pretty simple to set up, will be something simlpe, allways is?
James.
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Pdlewis
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 09:25 PM |
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Hi James,
Im in market bosworth. I know its going to be somthing very simple but dont have much experience with engines so going on what it says in books at
the min which isnt always the clearest
Cheers
Paul
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bobster
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 09:34 PM |
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ok.
Timing
(From Burton power)
Get enigne to TDC (use crank mark if you haven't remarked)
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to 90 degrees after TDC. This will make sure all the pistons are half way down the bore. Now position the dial gauge
so that it can read the lift of the inlet valve of number 1 cylinder from the top of the valve retainer. Rotate the cam until the gauge shows that the
valve is at full lift. As with the crankshaft, there will be a dwell period where the valve is at full lift. True full lift is at the centre of this
dwell period. Roughly position the cam at true lift position. Now rotate the crankshaft clockwise to the full valve lift position (as specified on the
camshaft data sheet - this figure is typically from 100 to 120 degrees after TDC), fit the timing belt or chain and set up the tensioner.
Now rotate the crank clockwise until the inlet valve of number one cylinder is just off full lift position (such as 0.005” or 0.15mm). Record the
figure on the timing disc from the pointer. Then continue to rotate the crank clockwise until the valve has fully opened and then closed by the same
distance as previously used (0.005” or 0.15mm). Read the figure on the timing disc again. The position of full lift is the middle of these two
figures. The full lift position can be calculated by adding the two figures together and dividing by two. Adjustments can then be made to the camshaft
timing, using an adjustable cam pulley or offset dowels, if this figure does not agree with the one on the data sheet. Check the timing again after
adjustments using the same procedure
OK now
1 check fueling. pump working etc (put out fag, un plug dizzy, pull out fuel input to carb and turn over engine - should get free flowing fuel). Refit
fuel hose/s
2 get engine at TDC on #1 cylinder - easiest way on pinto is to remove spark plugs. torch into #1 cylinder. as cylinder comes up to top check with
palm over spark plug hole that getting pressure. if not then rotate crank until piston comes back up to tdc ( 2 crank rotations to 1 cam rotation).
3 Check lead order on dizzy cap. Then at TDC (look at crank mark if you haven't remarked) then align dizzy to fire on #1 (easy on pinos to get
dizzy 180 deg out - i have done this and it will fire and can idle but sick as a dog after that) - CAREFULL if you have had the engine set up on a
Rolling road or professionally with timing light then just check rotor arm pointing towads correct lead and don't fiddle with timing advance (ie
rotating dizzy)
4 (all plugs out and leads not attached) Replace dizzy cap and turn over with spark plug attached to #1 lead held just off engine with pliers - check
spark. NB - can get spark with duf condenser just may be small. If spark not great then replace condenser (not expensive).
5 Repeat with other 3 leads.
6 Replace leads and plugs.
7 Fire up.
8 If not firing then get help as if the cam timing is out then you can screw up set of valves very quickly - i know from experience
9 If running then set timing using timing light - if no light then rotate dizzy whilst running @idle until find maximum revs then back off a bit.
(very very rough guide)
Hope this helps a bit
chris
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Pdlewis
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| posted on 9/6/07 at 09:42 PM |
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Thanks chris
Thats alot clear than the guide i was reading (shows how much miss information there is avalible via google)!
I have a timming disc image to print but havnt come accross a dial guage before so should i look into getting one?
Cheers
Paul
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bobster
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| posted on 10/6/07 at 07:47 AM |
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i think the simplest answer to that is if you are running mods (cam/head work/vernier timing pulley etc) then a DTI guage is required to set up the
timing properly. Print off disc and make up pointer out of coat hanger (best place to attach this is either one of the alternator or water pump bolts.
This is relatively straight forward, just takes time and patience. Your cam manufacturer should give you the required timing etc. If you are running
standard gear then you can still use dti or you could just use the standard timing marks on the cam.
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bobster
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| posted on 10/6/07 at 07:52 AM |
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dial guages are easy and relatively cheap. get a magnetic stand. I use silverline stuff. no problems so far. look at
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAGNETIC-STAND-DIAL-TEST-INDICATOR-DTI-METRIC_W0QQitemZ220119857995QQihZ012QQcategoryZ112399QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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NS Dev
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| posted on 11/6/07 at 12:08 PM |
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but it will still start without all that complication Bobster!!!
Yes, that's the right way to set it all up but just to get it started all you need is to make sure the right valves are open at the right
time!
First off, you say you have fuel, do you also have sparks?
Check you have!
If so, then either the valves are opening at the wrong times or the sparks are in totally the wrong places.
At this point its back to basics.
Turn the engine over by hand (socket on the crank pulley bolt) with number one spark plug out and your thumb over the hole, until you feel it
compressing the air against your finger, this is the compression stroke. When you feel this, stick something into the plug hole and feel the piston
and keep turning slowly till it is at its highest point. Check the crank pulley marks are lined up at roughly this point, then check your camshaft
pulley is also lined up right.
If all is ok (it should be) then take off the dizzy cap and check that the rotor arm has just passed or is approx pointing at the number 1 cyl plug
lead connection, and then check that the leads then go round the cap (in the direction of normal rotor arm spin) in the firing order.
Bet you have the plug leads wrong somewhere.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 11/6/07 at 12:12 PM |
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PS paul, I have u2u'd you my mob number as I have no computer at home at the mo.
If you are stuck I can pop over and take a look, just give me a call.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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