locoboy
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 10:51 AM |
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Welders, Viper Advice please!
Hi all,
I am looking at purchasing my first welder, i already have a car on the road so it will be for relatively light use, ie making brackets and small jobs
etc.
I know MIG is the best option for this and supposedly easiest to use. I have never welded before and would like advice on what type of set up to
buy.
what sort of Amperage machine will i need, i guess the thickest stuff i will weld will be maybe 3-5mm plate for rear axle mountings etc.
Also would you recommend gassless or a gas set up. my budget is probably about £200. New or Second hand?
any advice appreciated.
Regards
ColinViper
[Edited on 17/9/03 by colmaccoll]
ATB
Locoboy
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 11:00 AM |
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Viper is yer man here.
From my experience as an amateur thats repaired a rear ended metro with a professional 180+ welder and made my car with a clarke 100a (!) welder, I
can say go for the best power range you can!
Go for a 150a model and avoid gasless
use co2 argon mix - much neater and EASIER than co2 only.
atb
steve
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locoboy
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 11:21 AM |
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Viper,
You are the knowledge of all thing welded or weldable then!?
Can you sehd any further light on Steves suggestions?
Where would you advise purchasing from, Halfords? Machine Mart, ScrewFix or anywhere else you would personally recomend?
Cheers
Colin
ATB
Locoboy
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JoelP
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 11:24 AM |
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Steves right about all that, just make sure you know what you power supply is capable of powering.
Ie, an extemsion lead is usually only 13amps, a household circuit something like 20 to 30(?), and the whole consumer board not much more.
I just asked for the most powerful one that a normal circuit could power (runs ok on 13amps), but it is a trifle lacking in umph...!
Cant work out why they're described as 100amps but run on 13. anyone know?
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 11:37 AM |
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Have a look HERE
Seems like a good deal to me - although the mention of 'New year special' may mean that their website just needs updating..?
Dave
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MK Goldrush
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 11:44 AM |
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Watts = Volts x Amps
It's a bit complicated but generally the voltage is reduced whilst retaining the Wattage ie 240V @ 13 Amps = 3KW
Therefore, 120V @ 26 Amps = 3KW
So, to obtain the 100 Amps target - the Voltage would have to be reduced to 31.2V = 3KW. Thereby retaining the total power consumption (Watts).
Voltage is need to push Amps through - bit like a water pipe - you can have lots of water pressure (Amps) but little flow (Volts)! Basically,
manufacturers have a limit with domestic 240V supplies. Most main feeds into domestic houses is 80 Amps. Well it is on mine but then my house is 100
years old!!!
I'm no expert on this, but I've tried to explain it in the simplest way I can...
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 12:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MK Urbantiger
Voltage is need to push Amps through - bit like a water pipe - you can have lots of water pressure (Amps) but little flow (Volts
You got amps and volts the wrong way around, but the rest was a good basic description.
A modern house tends to have a board fuse at 100a.
I think most home welders go to about 150a max at a normal house socket.
In fact, the cabling behind the socket is rated to 30a in a ring main.....we just dont use the connectors to exceed 13a in a house.
atb
steve
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andyps
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 12:45 PM |
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I have a MIG bought from Machine Mart, I think it is a Clarke 150 - very happy with it, cost was about £160. It works both gasless and with gas - I
prefer the gas option, but if welding outside on a windy day gasless is much better. I think it probably works out more expensive to weld with the
gasless wire but have never properly measured this, just find it useful to have the choice.
This is my second MIG - the transformer went in the first one after at least ten years of usage - fairly heavy amatuer usage rate I would guess.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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timf
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 12:54 PM |
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try here for migs
http://search.ebay.co.uk/ws/search/SaleSearch?satitle=mig+welder&socurrencydisplay=2&salocatedincountry=3&maxrecordsreturned=300&sosor
tproperty=1&ht=1&from=R10&sorecordsperpage=50&BasicSearch=
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ChrisW
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 01:57 PM |
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Avoid gasless like the plague. I've got one and it's terrible! Even Conrod and Merlin (both experienced welders) couldn't produce
any decent results with it. Oh, and the wire costs a bomb - like £45 for a 5kg spool.
Chris
My gaff my rules
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 02:24 PM |
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I use gasless, only because I've done most of my Locost welding but still need to do the occasional 'gluing job'. This means that I
can still do some welding without having to pay the gas cylinder rental charges.
I've managed to make some respectable welds, but only in metal larger than 1.6mm/16SWG. At (or below) that size I found that there's a
significant risk of blowing holes - might be my technique, though!
It is expensive, but I only bought a 1kg reel, which is enough for my needs.
For fancy stuff (e.g. recent sump shortening) I used my scratch-start TIG, which still has a gas cylinder attached.
David
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locoboy
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 03:08 PM |
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one of the jobs i was going to attempt was the sump, is this doable with a MIG?
Col
ATB
Locoboy
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 03:11 PM |
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Certainly - it's what most people use. Don't be surprised if you get a leak or two though! These can be sealed up by brazing later on.
David
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JoelP
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 03:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by colmaccoll
one of the jobs i was going to attempt was the sump, is this doable with a MIG?
Col
just this morning i opened the garage door and found the newspaper soaking from loads of small holes! Mostly it had just soaked out so it looked bad,
in the end i marked most of the holes from the small rust mark where the leak was.
Was wondering what to do about them, i had just considered painting over them but new that was a bit shoddy...
the plasma cutter made the cutting so easy with the sump, but the 3mm plate i had left was a few mm too small so i hammered the sump and welded the
gap shut... hence the leaks!
not very hard at all though so far, though when i tried sawing the sump it did seem impossible to me. short on motivation!
anyway good luck if you do yours.
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Viper
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 06:39 PM |
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simpley put,
Go for mig (not gasless)
try to get one that will run 15kg spools of wire, cheaper in the long run and chuck a load of those silica gel packets in the enclosed space that
holds the wire.
Gas to use is Argon/co2 mix you will find it easier to use and get decent results, you don't need a massive gas flow around 8 ltrs a min is
plenty.
machine and power, anything you can get single phase you will be able to run at home because you won't be using loads of power anyway, but a
machine that is capable of high outputs generaly gives a more stable arc at lower settings.
so go for the biggest you can afford.
best place to buy a machine is your local welding supplier, any decent supplier can give you good advice on settings and as they are local any probs
or spares you might need should be easy to get and you never know they might even have something like a Kemppi kempomat 250 traded in....
think that about covers it...
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 09:49 PM |
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I agree with everything that Viper has said except for the 15Kg wire. Yes - get a machine that will hold 15Kg wire, but use 5Kg's aswell. The
wire feed on DIY machines is right on the limit on 15Kg's - it will slowly pull the wire at the begining of the weld and when you shut off it
will still push the wire due to the flywheel effect of the 15Kg spool (thats 33lbs!!!). The end effect is the begining of the weld is undercut due to
the lack of feed and the end of the weld is overladen due to the excess of feed. On a locost chassis the average weld is 25mm long, so about 5mm in
the middle is properly welded.
If you use 5Kg's the feed system is well within the design requirements and will weld a treat.
End up - a second hand 200amp welder at £175 will be a better bargain than a £175 new DIY one.
The saving of a 15Kg spool over a 5Kg is about £1.50, I have used 1 1/2 spools of % kg so far and am now at the stage of welding the odd bracket on.
To think - I could have saved about £2.00 on the whole build!!!!!!!!!!!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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thekafer
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| posted on 18/9/03 at 02:36 AM |
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e. I have never welded before and would like advice on what type of set up to buy.
Regards
ColinViper
[Edited on 17/9/03 by colmaccoll]
I have'nt seen anyone suggest an auto darkening helmet, but they rock!
They're getting cheaper too.Mine was $200 two years ago.The same model now goes for $110!!
 Fletch
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy...
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geoff shep
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| posted on 18/9/03 at 08:03 PM |
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I would have thought what you need from your description and budget is about a 130 amp mig. It'll do up to 5mm and run happily off the mains.
Something like these:
http://www.parkertools.co.uk/macros/Product.mac/Product?VisitorID=8L4XHJ4L03J&Status=guest&ProductNo=0448044&StockNo=0
http://www.welduk.com/catalogue/ultradevcart/product_detail.asp?referringId=5
But I agree that if you get it locally you'll get more support with advice and spares etc.
I've recently bought a second hand 150 DP - it does the business but trips the CBs every now and again, mind you it does say in the blurb that
it needs a 20amp supply.
Incidentally, if anyone's looking for a bigger bottle gas supplier I've just started a contract with Energas. It was a better deal than
BOC but may be a local North East thing. I have details if anyone wants.
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Peteff
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| posted on 18/9/03 at 08:17 PM |
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I'll agree with that, I've been plugging Energas on here for ages. I got fed up of BOC ripping me off with a handling charge when I fetch
my own bottle. I use an Erfi 170 off the domestic supply no problem with a big reel fitted. It needs an adaptor to use anything smaller.
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 19/9/03 at 08:23 AM |
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So I take it Geoff, that the deal bennets are doing (see my earlier post) is a good deal then ?
SIP Migmate 150 £185 inc VAT........ (£356.36 @ Parkers)
[Edited on 19/9/03 by protofj]
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/9/03 at 09:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by thekafer
I have'nt seen anyone suggest an auto darkening helmet, but they rock!
They're getting cheaper too.Mine was $200 two years ago.The same model now goes for $110!!
Fletch
I spent £180 on mine at machine mart. Bloody steep but i couldn't weld without it, can't even see where the thing is pointed until you
fire it up!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 19/9/03 at 10:01 AM |
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Ditto - my welding improved 1000% once I could see where the wire was aiming...
DJ
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 19/9/03 at 10:24 AM |
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RE: my last post ....I have just tried to order the Mig welder from Bennetts website and low and behold... the site is buggered when you get to
'checkout'.
Currently waiting for them to get back to me on this - but I'm not holding my breath
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 10:49 AM |
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Surprising news - Bennets got back to me and honoured their web offer. They only had 2 left and one just happened to be in Ipswich 
SO.. they have one SIP Migmate 150 left in thier Sheffiled store. for the princely sum of £185 inc VAT + £5 for delivery.
If you want it I suggest contacting through their web site and quoting the deal advertised.....
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Jumpy Guy
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| posted on 22/9/03 at 05:55 PM |
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Whaddya think?
Looking atwelders for my post chassis build...
i.e. chassis built, just odds n sod, brackets etc etc
Halfords have 20% off SIP Migmate welders- 105 turbo model for £120.00
looks like a good enough deal, and powerful enough, I think...
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