hi guys, just need to confirm a few things about 3 wheelers as i want to make one some time next year, and want to start designing next week...

to pass the road legal test (IVA?) does it need a handbrake and reverse?

if i use the rear end of a motorbike (like the indy cycle design) could i use that number plate and v5?

do i insure it under that motorbike or a seperate insurance?

is insurance any cheaper than a bike or car?

most importantly, do you think i could build one for £1k? ....

if anyone else has a checklist or form from the test (IVA/SVA type thing) that would be brilliant, as i could design it to a more solid specification than "look nice, go fast"

thanks
chris

You can definitely build for under a grand, but you'll have to do as much work as possible and prepared to wait for bargains. Testing is another matter, in short no, you can;t use the reg of the bike as it becomes a new vehicle when you start changing major components. There's a list of parts which add up on a ppoint system to keep a reg but it will change from a motorbike to a trike on the v5 and will need to be insured as such. You can find the iva manual at directgov

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwik
hi guys, just need to confirm a few things about 3 wheelers as i want to make one some time next year, and want to start designing next week...

to pass the road legal test (IVA?) does it need a handbrake and reverse?

if i use the rear end of a motorbike (like the indy cycle design) could i use that number plate and v5?

do i insure it under that motorbike or a seperate insurance?

is insurance any cheaper than a bike or car?

most importantly, do you think i could build one for £1k? ....

if anyone else has a checklist or form from the test (IVA/SVA type thing) that would be brilliant, as i could design it to a more solid specification than "look nice, go fast"

thanks
chris

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Trikes still use the MSVA (motorcycle SVA) which is much easier to pass and much much cheaper currently than IVA.
The paper copy of the manual costs money from VOSA, but check this thread before you order.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=132356

You need a handbrake (or a sidestand ) but no reverse is required for trikes.

You register in the same way as a kit, and it should be possible to get an age related plate rather than a Q if using the whole rear of a bike. You are very unlikely to be able to keep the reg, but stranger things have happened at the DVLA so it's worth asking.

You need specialist kit insurance, which should be cheaper than either car or bike insurance if you get a limited mileage policy.

£1k is going to be pushing it if you are including the donor bike, but with care should be achievable if you aren't.

The MSVA manual will help with the inspection requirements which should give you confidence that you can pass first time. But there's plenty of help on here.

the budget is fully dependent on how much my mini sells for, and from that i will determine the budget for the car...

im not planning to make lots or anything, probebly just a one off, and maybe take lots of piccys and technical drawings, and maybe sell some sort of manual or plans for the car to recoup some money...

i reccon ifi sell my car for what i want to sell it at £3000 (which is possible btw) i could have £2k to play with, saving some money for my other hobby, and the rest hold back for a nice new phone or something..

thanks for the help and i will look for MSVA information
chris

You need a hand brake. It has to work on all the wheels of one axle. It will have to pass MSVA - I'd recommend buying the manual from VOSA. It isn't much and is a check list of all the things it must do and must not do to pass.

i have been thinking more practicly at the trike, and as there is absalutly no room to make it at home, im going to have to find a place for it...

so i thought i could ask my school (im a year 12 sixthformer, and doing product design next year) and i was thinking i could make it as my DT product (except i will need to think of a unique idea to add ot it...

this way i will have mostly all tools including CNC, milling and even a 3D printer... and space for me to make it. but how long does it take to make?

bearing in mind i will have done all the design work and have the materials, aswell as have all the money ready to buy parts...

i will have around 6 months and could put 5 hours a week into it (more if i had to) would it be possible if it was a relativly simple chassis?

i have made my first (very rough) design of my trike so you can have an idea of what it will look like.

http://s455.photobucket.com/albums/q...nt=trike01.jpg

the rear end where the engine is is going to be a motorbike frame (with engine gearbox etc and wheel) bolted onto the back of my chassis (the rear wheel and engine in my picture is only so you can see the size comparison...

the person in my model is based on a 6ft tall medium build (about what i am) so i use him (todd) to judje height of the chassis and width (aswell as measuring around me

the next one is going to be quite bit different, and a lot nicer as this was only done quickly and roughly to show you the sort of thing i am designing.

thankyou for looking
chris

Can't see the picture, photobucket won't let me in (do you have to be logged in?). Try uploading to your photoarchive (if it's not too big).

Just had a look at your blog. Lots of interesting ideas going on
You seem to be designing something pretty close to a MEV Atomic with an enclosed body.

[Edited on 31/3/10 by iank]

does that work?

my other designs where just designed without any inspiration, apart from the body which was loosly based on a car in a game i have, i forget the name...

[Edited on 31/3/10 by Kwik]

[Edited on 31/3/10 by Kwik]

Yep, that works now.

Looks very good so far, does it need more triangulation in the front section at the sides?

Have you done any maths on the layout? Reverse trikes with RWD can be a bit 'exciting' if you try to power out of a corner. I did have a link to a site that discussed it - will look later when I have some time.

p.s. Wasn't suggesting you were copying, but common problems tend to produce similar packaging etc. (same as f1 cars of the same years). "Great minds think alike" as it were.

Take a look at dp1 as well http://www.dpcars.net/

i have used the dp1 car as my initial inspiration and made me want to do it in the first place...

as for the layout exciting = good i will work on the akermans calcs tomorrow, as i have a very long train journey to bristol (from london)

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwik
as for the layout exciting = good i will work on the akermans calcs tomorrow, as i have a very long train journey to bristol (from london)

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Two hopefully interesting bits of reading for the train.

http://www.rqriley.com/3-wheel.htm

and

http://www.clevislauzon.qc.ca/Professeurs/Mecanique/ethierp/3-wheels/stabil.htm

especially the bit on stability here
http://www.clevislauzon.qc.ca/Professeurs/Mecanique/ethierp/3-wheels/class3.htm


[Edited on 31/3/10 by iank]

I'd try to get more of the weight nearer the front axle. The nearer to the 2 wheeled axle the less likely it is to roll over. I'd want my feet between the front wheels, just behind the steering rack. A gap between the driver and the engine won't hurt. Also, go for a wide front track. Wider = more cornering g before tipping over.

The next thing is to keep all the weight low. Very low. In Canada, you need the track width to be 5x the centre of gravity height (2.5x from the centre to each front wheel). This is perhaps a bit much but something to aim for.

just to ask the question, but does it have to be rear engined?

what about running the engine up front?

shaft drive engine and rear end, or chain drive motor, short adjustable chain run to a bevel box from say an XS1100 and shaft back from there?

not saying its a good idea, just wondering?