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My Electric Three Wheeer Build

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:04 PM

This illustrates the general arrangement of the main components
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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:06 PM

And this the packaging within locost type chassis

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[Edited on 4/7/12 by martinslyon]

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:09 PM

Aluminium panels and wheels attached

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:11 PM

First assembly mock-up

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:13 PM

Showing monoshock linkage

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:15 PM

Simple and elegant front wheel drive upright

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:17 PM

Front corner with drive shaft

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Will post more soon, would be interested to receive feedback and comments?

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:24 PM

Monoshock linkage detail

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:27 PM

Labelled schematic

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:30 PM

Bottom view

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Fred W B - 4/7/12 at 07:40 PM

That all looks very impressive.

Pardon me if I've missed something, but what resists chassis roll in cornering with that setup?

Cheers

Fred W B

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:41 PM

Fabricated swinging arm - similar to this.........

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:46 PM

But I'm going to use this for now...........

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HowardB - 4/7/12 at 07:49 PM

well impressive, what are you using for batteries?

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 07:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fred W B
That all looks very impressive.

Pardon me if I've missed something, but what resists chassis roll in cornering with that setup?

Cheers

Fred W B

Nothing at the moment Fred, I'm going to build the prototype in this configuration to keep it simple and lightweight, the ultimate objective is to develop a simple leaning mechanism that does not rely on hydraulics or electronics.
When I have it at a stage where we can test it we will evaluate how big a problem roll is on a wide based narrow three wheeler with all the weight low down between the wheel centres, and if necessary convert to a sliding pivot with belville springs and washers or at the very worst a push rod twin shock setup - but that would be an admission of complete failure and seriously dissapointing!

Thank you for taking an interest.
Regards Martin.

[Edited on 4/7/12 by martinslyon]

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 08:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by HowardB
well impressive, what are you using for batteries?

Budget allowing - lithium-ion mounted on the floor where conveniant and low down on the outside of the main chassis in shaped aero pods.

Thank you for your interest.
Regards Martin

MikeCapon - 4/7/12 at 08:05 PM

Wow. Nice work. Keep at it.

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 08:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeCapon
Wow. Nice work. Keep at it.

Cheers Mike - I will post an image of my monoshock - I would appreciate your opinion.
Regards
Martin

HowardB - 4/7/12 at 08:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by martinslyon

quote:
Originally posted by HowardB
well impressive, what are you using for batteries?

Budget allowing - lithium-ion mounted on the floor where conveniant and low down on the outside of the main chassis in shaped aero pods.

Thank you for your interest.
Regards Martin

What kind of range are you looking for? That is gong to be some kit when it is done,..

martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 08:13 PM

This is my Ohlins monoshock - allegedly from a Van Diemen single seater??

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martinslyon - 4/7/12 at 08:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by HowardB

quote:
Originally posted by martinslyon

quote:
Originally posted by HowardB
well impressive, what are you using for batteries?

Budget allowing - lithium-ion mounted on the floor where conveniant and low down on the outside of the main chassis in shaped aero pods.

Thank you for your interest.
Regards Martin

What kind of range are you looking for? That is gong to be some kit when it is done,..

Hi Howard, the starting point is to see what sort of performance we can get for a couple of hours, if it all turns out well I would like to see if we can sustain a fun to drive performance car for a range of 120 miles with an 8 hour recharge cycle.
But it's all theoretical at the moment because EV's are a bit of a black art to me and so I shall be learning as I go and posting on here to seek advice.
Thank you for your comments
Regards Martin

rallyingden - 4/7/12 at 08:56 PM

Like the idea ........
What electronics are you using ?
What Voltage are you running at ?
DC or AC drive ?
Are you using regen braking ?

Keep[ up the good work

RD

watsonpj - 4/7/12 at 09:08 PM

Hi Martin
I had a really good look at your pictures last week as its of real interest to me as I am also interested in an electric vehicle build. Mine is also a single seat as I would like to use it as my daily driver to work (120miles round trip). I was looking at either a warp motor or a couple of agni motors with lithium ion batteries. It started as a car with 4 wheels but i had come to conclusion that to lose weight a wheel needed to be sacrificed. I'm no where near as far along as you appear but thanks for re invigorating my interest in the project.

Heres a picture of what I am think of,

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Please keep up the great work.

cheers Pete

MikeRJ - 5/7/12 at 07:03 AM

Have you calculated the magnitude of the stresses that will be seen in the front suspension? The extremely shallow angle of your pushrods means there is going to be a very large compressive force on them and the bracket on the upright (and equally large tensile forces on the top wishbones). I don't wish to be negative but gut feel says that something is going to bend.

martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 07:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Have you calculated the magnitude of the stresses that will be seen in the front suspension? The extremely shallow angle of your pushrods means there is going to be a very large compressive force on them and the bracket on the upright (and equally large tensile forces on the top wishbones). I don't wish to be negative but gut feel says that something is going to bend.

I'm afraid I haven't Mike, sadly my skills do not extend to that level of technical competence, having said that bear in mind that under compression the pushrod will transfer force initially to the other side and then upwards via the front shock pivot, the pushrod angles and pivot point design are still not finalised, everything in the drawings and photos is just a mock-up at this stage.
I'm on a mission and I'm going to build it in line with my vision, if I'm not happy with how it works I will modify and evolve it.
I will keep your concerns in mind as I move forward and will report failures and successes so that other members can learn from my mistakes.
Thank you for taking an interest, Regards Martin

martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 07:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by watsonpj
Hi Martin
I had a really good look at your pictures last week as its of real interest to me as I am also interested in an electric vehicle build. Mine is also a single seat as I would like to use it as my daily driver to work (120miles round trip). I was looking at either a warp motor or a couple of agni motors with lithium ion batteries. It started as a car with 4 wheels but i had come to conclusion that to lose weight a wheel needed to be sacrificed. I'm no where near as far along as you appear but thanks for re invigorating my interest in the project.

Heres a picture of what I am think of,

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trike [/img]

Please keep up the great work. cheers Pete

Hi Pete and thank you for your comments. I like your graphic and look forward to seeing how your project develops. Regards Martin

martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 08:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rallyingden
Like the idea ........
What electronics are you using ?
What Voltage are you running at ?
DC or AC drive ?
Are you using regen braking ?
Keep[ up the good work
RD

Ah ha - a boffin, I could do with you down here Den, I will be posting my plans shortly and inviting feedback because I really am in uncharted territory.
I want to get the prototype finished as quickly and cheaply as possible so that I have a test bed to work on as I will be learning as I go.
Regenerative braking is not on the agenda to start with, but who knows, if I get good at this I might try a little sophistication.
Thanks for taking an interest, Regard Martin

mikeb - 5/7/12 at 10:49 AM

Loving this. Great work.
A guy at my old place made a really neat 4 wheel electric car (he's made two actually) both really well engineered, he had hte luxory of a very nice battery system for next to nothing.

Just a thought but could you not design it so the electric motor is chain driven to the rear wheel thus loosing the weight of the diff and drive shafts. Not sure on final drive ratios and motor torque but purely from a weight saving perspective?

Mr Whippy - 5/7/12 at 11:12 AM

I like it so far, though for real efficiency I'd have dumped the wide tyres, the rolling friction from almost 3ft of tread will kill your battery and performance and harm streamlining

I wish such cars had separate roads from other traffic then I�d have been building one too

[Edited on 5/7/12 by Mr Whippy]

HowardB - 5/7/12 at 11:33 AM

I like the system as electric motors can produce significant torque from a standstill, so 2wd is better than 1wd. However as you say there are issues of efficiency and losses from the diff.

Battery weight and position will be important, especially so for cornering.

As for tyres, I am sure that the use of more narrow wheels will help. I was told that on the Volvo V40 the use of 195 tyres gave 99g/km CO2, but 215's increased that by 3% and put the vehicle into another tax bracket(!)

It is an interesting idea, and I shall watch and learn, much better than the TG electo-toy-disaster

Mr Whippy - 5/7/12 at 12:04 PM

only other point is the chassis top rails at the cockpit edge, the way you have it designed, if you were rear ended the area of the chassis that would crumple or fold up is where you are sitting... I'd want to beef that section up alot perhaps use larger or doubled up tubing, even a x-brace rather than just a plain diagonal

martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:11 PM

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martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:12 PM

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martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:13 PM

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martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:14 PM

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martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:15 PM

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martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:17 PM

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martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:18 PM

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martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 04:19 PM

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TheGiantTribble - 5/7/12 at 05:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by martinslyon
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Do my eyes fool me or is that a 4 wheeler not a trike

And it looks AWSSSUMMMMmmmmly sweet, yes I like that a lot

martinslyon - 5/7/12 at 06:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TheGiantTribble

quote:
Originally posted by martinslyon
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Do my eyes fool me or is that a 4 wheeler not a trike

And it looks AWSSSUMMMMmmmmly sweet, yes I like that a lot

You noticed! it's Dennis Palatov's expertly self built dp1.
Imagine the two rear wings merged together under the centre cockpit section.
And the front wings connected to the centre section with aero sections covering the wishbones - and that is what I hope my reverse trike will look like when finished.

Mr Whippy - 6/7/12 at 07:09 AM

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Originally posted by martinslyon
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this looks very good

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martinslyon - 6/7/12 at 07:21 PM

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martinslyon - 6/7/12 at 07:24 PM

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[Edited on 6/7/12 by martinslyon]

martinslyon - 6/7/12 at 07:25 PM

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martinslyon - 6/7/12 at 07:27 PM

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martinslyon - 7/7/12 at 03:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by martinslyon
Front corner with drive shaft

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Will post more soon, would be interested to receive feedback and comments?

'Wot no brakes??

MikeRJ - 7/7/12 at 07:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by martinslyon
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Has your design now changed? This is a more conventional layout for the pushrods, operating on the lower wishbones and avoiding the shallow angles of the original.

martinslyon - 7/7/12 at 08:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ

quote:
Originally posted by martinslyon
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Has your design now changed? This is a more conventional layout for the pushrods, operating on the lower wishbones and avoiding the shallow angles of the original.

Not really Mike, this was an earlier drawing, the final configuration will depend on accomodating things like drive shaft clearance and is therefore dependant on the uprights and hubs I use, originally I acquired some old Mini Cooper bits but then managed to get the DP uprights shown in the earlier pictures which work with Golf mk1 bits.
It also depends to some extent on whether the single disc mounted between the motor and the diff actually works or whether that also has to be modified to something more conventional.
The CAD work was done for me by Simon Keys and was high level and conceptual, I don't have the skills and cannot afford to get all the development work doine in advance on paper so that means some of it is just going to be mocking it up physically, testing it and seeing if it works OK, not very professional I know but it's the best I can do with limited resources.
Having said that I enjoy pottering so it's part of the fun of the project for me.
Thanks for your continued interest.
Regards
Martin