What happens if you submit a notification of work to the council... do they come inspect it for you?
Anyone know the definitive ins and outs of this one...
Just bought a house.... the gas boiler is in the wrong place.. (the wall its on is being removed!)
Its about 7 years old, with direct hot water.
Now obviously I can not do the gas work myself, nor would I particularly wish to.
BUT...
Can I legally move it and redo the pipework to connect it back up again when its in its new location? Once the water is connected up I can get a gas
man in to do his magic....
I am a competant person and doing the work, to me, would be very simple..... But I am curious as to the rules etc?
Also, anyone know what the rules are re- boiler and height from floor/celing?
You would have to get a qualified plumber to cut off the gas and to reconnect it and check and certify your installation.
No plumber is ever going to volunteraly certify someone elses work though are they.... they will want to do it themselves to make money...
What happens if you submit a notification of work to the council... do they come inspect it for you?
Yes you can. You're not doing it for money and it's your own property so you can do it. In fact you could do your own gas work but a gas
leak can be a "bit of a pain" so I wouldn't 
I just installed my own boiler from scratch. Just got the gas man to solder up the pipes I'd laid in place (kept the wife happy there
wouldn't be any leaks and cost me peanuts).
A gas safety certificate is a good idea in case of a house insurance claim....
Im doing the same thing.
In an ideal world, you would need the boiler disconnected by a gas engineer, and capped off. If you have a valve to the boiler, then you could
probably open all the doors and windows and do it yourself. Personally, id do all the copper work first, then when you come to disconnect, move, and
reconnect the boiler, you can have the gas done in a couple of hours tops, leaving you to reconnect the water etc.
I would want the boiler serviced and recommissioned at the same time.
it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway. I would defo not sign anyone elses work off
for two reasons by the time you have double checked everything you might as well have done the job myself, dont forget the resposobility for that gas
appliance then rests with who ever signs it off making them liable if something goes wrong.
Annd secondly why should joe bloggs be doing work like that then asking me to bob in and sign it off for not much money when it costs proper
registered gas fitters thousands to become and remain registered.
Its upto you but any gas fitter with half a brain willl not sign off anybody elses work as its shooting yourself in the foot big time.
quote:
Originally posted by bob tatt
it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway. I would defo not sign anyone elses work off for two reasons by the time you have double checked everything you might as well have done the job myself, dont forget the resposobility for that gas appliance then rests with who ever signs it off making them liable if something goes wrong.
Annd secondly why should joe bloggs be doing work like that then asking me to bob in and sign it off for not much money when it costs proper registered gas fitters thousands to become and remain registered.
Its upto you but any gas fitter with half a brain willl not sign off anybody elses work as its shooting yourself in the foot big time.
me personally no dont take this personally as im sure you are switched on enough to be able to solder some pipes together, it just in the past i have experience this type of job and 9 times out of ten something gets done wrong and takes time for me to put right. Im sure someone local to you will do it as there is always someone who will do such work. But if they are going to do all the other work ie move it and sort the gas side out they might as well do the lot then they can commision it at the same time rather than waiting for the wet side to be connected then coming back to re commision.
Its just so frustrating.... doesnt help that I have never ever employed a trades person that does a good job.... equally frustrating knowing you
are paying someone to do a job you could easily do yourself to better standards! Im sure there are good trades people out there, but I have not
seen one! Such is the world we live in eh...
[Edited on 18/5/10 by tegwin]
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
Its just so frustrating.... doesnt help that I have never ever employed a trades person that does a good job.... equally frustrating knowing you are paying someone to do a job you could easily do yourself to better standards! Im sure there are good trades people out there, but I have not seen one! Such is the world we live in eh...
[Edited on 18/5/10 by tegwin]
Interested in this, as i've got to move the boiler at some point...
if you are competant to do it all just do it.........boiler is 7 years old anyway so all paperwork is long gone and boiler is getting near the end of
its life anyway.......if you sell the solicitor won't need cert as we have only being doing them for new boilers for the last 3
years..........and advise wanted just ask..
If you are sure you can do it yourself, just do it. You will never get caught out, as there arent really any proceedures in place anywhere to detect
illegal work unless the householder reports it, which obviously you wouldnt. However if something goes wrong, you're in the s***. So if you are
sure you know what you're doing, all good.
If its an unvented cylinder there's also that aspect of it thats illegal for you too touch.
I fitted a new gas fire with back boiler. I also plumbed-in a gas hob to replace the electric one. This was about ten years ago and since then,
I've serviced the fire and boiler a few times. Not a problem for me skills wise but when I came to sell the house (which completed last week.
HURRAH!) I was expecting a shed-load of aggro. But no. In the various forms to be completed, the questions were asked "Has the property had any
recent gas appliances fitted?", answered 'yes'. "Was the work carried out by a registered gas fitted?" 'No'.
But nothing more was mentioned.
Although the HIP pack asked "has there been any recent work been carried-out by a CORGI/Gas Safe engineer?". Well, no. There has been work
carried-out, but not by a proper gassy guy so the answer was 'No'!!
I've just had word that my offer has been accepted on a wreck of a house up the road. I can't see me rushing to pay a gas man to work there
either!
lol, you know no one ever reads those forms then
Well all I can say is I installed my own boiler and bunged the local gas man £200 to connect up the pipes and give us a gas safety cert and he was a
happy bunny and so was I. Works a treat....
So if you know how to do it then fine.
I can also concur with the "do it properly, do it yourself" approach. One gas engineer was trying to persuade me (until I let on I knew a
little bit about it) that it was a 50 metre run from the front of the house to the back. Now this is a 2 bed cottage. I did it in 14M of 28mm.....
When they can't estimate distance (or are just prepared to rip me off from the beginning) it doesn't give me much confidence that
they'll do a good job....
Its just so frustrating.... doesnt help that I have never ever employed a trades person that does a good job.... equally frustrating knowing you are
paying someone to do a job you could easily do yourself to better standards! Im sure there are good trades people out there, but I have not seen one!
Such is the world we live in eh
it depends how you go about finding a trades person, to many people go with the cheapest quote and you have to ask your self why is it cheaper because
the job will probably be rushed and not to a good standard.
go on recomendation and hey are usually very good, i have traded on my own for nearly ten years now never advertised all recocomendations and i have
very few problems with jobs usually a faulty part thats caused it. The reason this annoys me so much is it takes gas safety out of the hands of the
people that are trained in that area as well as removing work from them, look at it another way how would everyone like it if your boss turned round
and said right ive got some unpaid unskilled worker in to do 90% of your job all you have to do is sign it off as your own and your not getting full
pay this week.
quote:
Originally posted by bob tatt
it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway.
Just another thought, if you involve anyone in getting certification and doing it "properly," might there be a problem that once you've removed the boiler, refitting it in a different location is suddenly classed as "installing" a boiler and you might get caught out by the building regulations?
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by bob tatt
it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway.
Apparently it's not - it is only illegal to be doing it for gain without being registered, as the legislation only requires you to be competent. Now of course when it all goes wrong, it's somewhat difficult to prove that it wasn't your fault and that you were competent
building regs only covers installing a new appliance and not moving an existing one so no problem there.
steve you are correct that it is not illegal if you are not doing it for gain however if your house gets damaged because of a gas excape or even worse
some one is killed because you did nt want to pay somebody to do the work properly how would that make you feel, would you be able to sleep well at
night i doubt it.
i have a lot of respect for many people on this site however it infuartaes me when some times there is a very gunho attitude to some thing as critical
as gas safety can i ask anyone who is reading this how to test for gas tightness and what tools are reguired to do this . Also when recommjsioning the
aplliance how many of the diy fraternity have a flu gas analyzer and the skills to operate it and interprite the readings to be able to determine if
the appliance is safe to use.
At the end of the day its upto the individual to decide if they are happy to put the lives of there nearest and dearest in danger to save a few
pounds.
Bob.... I am not proposing I touch the gas... its only the water side of things I will do.... leaking wet pipes I can deal with... leaking gas pipes I
cant!!
What are the regs then with regards to pressurized heating systems? Are pressure vessels another one of those "no go" areas unless you have
the magic certificate?
[Edited on 18/5/10 by tegwin]
This one always makes me laugh if your asking how you do it you shouldn't be doing it. how can you call yourself competant?
It's not just about checking the pipework that you have moved how do you know that 7 year old boiler is still safe are the seals still intact is
the flue still performing do you have the correct pressures there are many checks you have to do to ensure it's safe it only takes one thing not
working and your in trouble this is why there are so many co poisioning and gas explosion incidents
[Edited on 18/5/10 by adam1985]
quote:
Originally posted by adam1985
This one always makes me laugh if your asking how you do it you shouldn't be doing it. how can you call yourself competant?
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
quote:
Originally posted by adam1985
This one always makes me laugh if your asking how you do it you shouldn't be doing it. how can you call yourself competant?
Im not asking advice on how to do the job though am I? Simply asking on the legalities of doing it... very big difference!
Unvented hot water cylinders need a engineer who is certified towork on them
Thanks Adam.
Its a direct HW system, so no hot water tank to worry about
didnt mean to snap..I just get so frustrated with all these rules and regulations..... I know its for peoples safety etc, its just frustrating...
After reading this thread it makes me smile... I'm between the two on this one. I've just renovated my house. Plumbing, flooring, wiring etc
(sounds like I was doing the Car, but no!) I have to agree with Tegwin. The standard of work I came across on ALL counts was deplorable. Old Pipes,
old wires, old wood all left in situ to rot and decay causing unknown future problems.
If I do it myself I do it properly, remove all waste etc and make the job not only look proper but do the job to a higher quality and eliminate future
trouble.
However, I have to agree with Tatt too - I too am Certified in all sorts, nothing to do with the house work I've been undertaking. BUT the
trouble is the following 3 things have an effect on the workman's quality:
1. Ignorance of the Vendor appears directly proportional to the cost of repair/replacement.
2. Just how many jobs can the Fitter fit in over 8 hours. Then allows a few days off?
3. Removing old supplies/waste is not "Fitting" so increases time, therefore cost.
I've just had a fault on my W/Bosch Boiler which stopped it working, no heating no Hot Water for 3 days - got 4 quotes from Corgi Registered
Fitters - varied from £300 - £500. I decided to have a look myself following the Wiring Schematics - Now the various guys did not remove the front
cover - all said it was a faulty Gas Valve.
Turns out is was a Central Heating Low Water Pressure Switch that was gunked up! Tapped out the gunk, cleaned the bore of residual silt and gave it a
rinse - 2 hours work tops....
The way I see it - ALL of these guys were dying to get me to take it up the aris! Fact is - NOT ONE of them knew the job in hand, they never looked!
Easy money and they knew it!!!
SCAMSTERS!!!!
Steve
PS - and yes, I would do it again!
Just because someone has the relevant paperwork it DOESN'T make them competent in the eyes of the law.
Thats why there has been a few electrical types prosecuted for dangerous work as they had the paperwork but were still deemed not competent.
I did my full central heating system and paid someone £200 to sign it off and give me the correct paperwork. He said he'd do it all day long
that way if he could. He checked my work and I gave him some tips on current regs
There's lots of trades that just 'test' other peoples work, 2391 electrical testing springs to mind. also in lots of Gas companies not
everyone is on the Gas safe register to keep costs down with only 1 or 2 of the guys checking and signing off other peoples work.
If you know what you're doing just do it, you'll have a long list of people willing to sign it off and check it over for some cash.
The worst that can happen is an internal water feature! 
Been reading this thread with interest.
I have the same situation in on the electrical side. I am profesional Electrical Engineer, completed a four year apprenticeship in electrical
engineering at a large industrial site.
I went to college and gained sufficient qualifications to become a member of the Institute of Engineering Technologists. I am registered with the
Engineering Council as an Incorporated Engineer. But I don't have a Part P certificate, so I am not supposed to make major alterations to the
wiring in my house.
Yet, a kitchen fitter or bathroom fitter (no disrespect to those guys) can get a Part P by doing a short course and away they go.
Whole bloody world has gone mad.
Do you think a court of law would accept that my not insignificant pile of certificates and 30 years profesional experience would make me competant to
add circuits in my house.
I'm not sure in this day and age that they would.
Mike
I recently read an interesting quote from a judge during a Health and Safety court case:
"You say your 22 years of experience and several certificates say you're competant? I say the two homeless families and a hole in a terrace
suggests you are not..."
I'm haqppy to play with MY gas, electric water etc because I'm confident I can. I have all the gear to set up the emissions on the boiler
and to check for leaks. I have eyes to spot water leaks and I roll of insulating tape to catch any electric leaks.........
FWIW. I'm certified to work on Gas at 40bar so I'm sure I can handle a few mB.....
I'm safe to play with electric at 4160v and 24MW's of the stuff.
And I'm a certified dive leader so if the water leaks gets too bad......
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
FWIW. I'm certified to work on Gas at 40bar so I'm sure I can handle a few mB..... I'm safe to play with electric at 4160v and 24MW's of the stuff.