scootz
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 01:11 PM |
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Thanks for that Smart... if nothing else, the stripped chassis will be good for taking mounting templates from, etc.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 01:12 PM |
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Zoiks... K1200 turbo engine!
It's Evolution Baby!
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smart51
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 01:48 PM |
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Put it away! You've got 2 too many engines already.
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scootz
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 01:51 PM |
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Don't worry - just drooling!
It's Evolution Baby!
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 02:00 PM |
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hi there,
would you mind passing on the details of the company that sold you the BMW bits and some idea of how mutch that set you back? as I have been looking
at BMW bits for a bit for a trike project.
blake
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scootz
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 02:13 PM |
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Hello!
I've sent you a mail with all the contact details!
LINKY
It's Evolution Baby!
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Peteff
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 03:10 PM |
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How will a fat wheel fit on the single sided swing arm without moving the engine and everything off to one side ? It's just something
that's bugging me or is there an obvious solution I haven't thought of ?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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scootz
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| posted on 22/7/10 at 03:14 PM |
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Glad you spotted my deliberate mistake Pete... the fat wheel was on the cards when I was using the Aprilia engine as the sprocket output would have
been located much closer to the offside of the vehicle, so would have pushed the swingarm assy over too in order to keep things aligned.
As I'm now using a BMW engine, then the swingarms, etc. will all be located centrally, so will be using the standard wheel.
I'll probably be aiming for 175's on the front and a 195 on the rear now.
It's Evolution Baby!
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hexxi
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| posted on 29/7/10 at 06:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
What would your wheelbase be if you made your car this way? I'd start to scratch my head a bit if it got much more than say 2.5m long. Mine
will have a 2.4m wheelbase versus a 1.3m track (tyre centres) which is on the long side of the 1.6:1 rule of thumb. Longer than 1.6 and the
car's handling is biased more in favour of straight line stability than cornering nimbleness. Get it too long and it will turn like a tanker.
Too short and it will be twitchy.
[Edited on 19-7-2010 by smart51]
How did you come to this 1.6:1 ?
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smart51
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| posted on 29/7/10 at 07:07 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hexxi
How did you come to this 1.6:1 ?
From years of reading around the subject. Some suspect the neutral figure is the golden ratio (1.61803399) but that's mostly because it is the
answer to everything else. I haven't done an exhaustive study myself but believe that short wheel base cars (Lancia Stratos, Metro 6R4, RS200
etc) turn fast but aren't stable in a straight line. LWB cars like the Mercedes Grosser and any pink hen night car don't turn too well
but go in a straight line very well.
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iank
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| posted on 29/7/10 at 07:57 AM |
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The 1.6 figure appears along with a list of example cars in Staniforths Race and Rally Car Source Book.
It's a number to use as a starting point if designing a car, not something to treat as a holy grail as there are plenty of other things that
affect turn vs straight line performance (weight distribution and COG for two before getting into how suspension design can affect things).
I do have reservations on how it can be applied to trikes to be honest - for one thing should you measure the centerline of the car or the distance
between a front and the rear wheel for wheel base? (i.e. along the hypotenuse of the triangle) and should you be using average wheel track? - for a
trike the rear track is zero so should you halve the track measurement on the front. Even does it apply at all for trikes? (something like it should
as motorbike also have the same effect based on wheelbase)
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Peteff
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| posted on 29/7/10 at 08:34 AM |
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1.6:1 is the golden ratio in nature. It is the ratio of the spiral of Nautilus shells and various parts of the human body in relation to others like
the upper arm to forearm etc. Da Vinci used it so it's not a new thing and could be applied to anything in some way.
[Edited on 29/7/10 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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scootz
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| posted on 31/7/10 at 10:31 AM |
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Donor bike arrived... 98 K1200RS. Looks a lot smarter in the photo than it does in the flesh, but still not too bad at all.
Seems to be some oil escaping from the engine / diff, but who cares at the price I paid! There were bare engines priced higher!
 
Two hours after arriving and it's been given the Scootz-Treatment!
[img][/img]
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 1/8/10 at 08:04 AM |
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Ber-luddy hell!
Asked the vendor when I was buying the bike what the engine width was... "measured it - less than 50cm" was the reply.
Perfect... 51cm is the width of the chassis at the rear!
Why did I not take my own measurement before I stripped the bike... it's 56cm! Too wide to work with!
Back to the flipping drawing board... and I guess I'd better open an eBay shop to sell this K1200RS in a zillion pieces!
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 8/8/10 at 12:50 PM |
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BMW breakers-yard going pretty well! So it's looking like I'll be going back to the traditional swingarm and chain drive set-up!
That being the case, then I definitely want a fat rear wheel! Problem is, the custom 'fat' rear bike wheels tend to be designed for
belt-driven US-bikes and the cost $$$$$$$$$.
Can anyone point me in the direction of any bike wheel experts!?
Alternatively, can any clever LCB'er come up with a suitable spindle design that would allow a normal car wheel with a neutral offset to be used
and still accommodate a sprocket and brake disc carrier on either side!?
It's Evolution Baby!
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smart51
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| posted on 8/8/10 at 03:08 PM |
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Are you sure you can't work with the engine you have. an extra 5cm doesn't sound like much. 25mm either side will only be the widest
point too, not the whole engine. I bet you could come up with a nice solution if you put your mind to it.
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scootz
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| posted on 8/8/10 at 03:22 PM |
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I probably could, but I'm not too impressed with the BMW set-up...
The engine is bigger and heavier than anticipated and the separate gearbox makes it an uber-looooooooong package!
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 07:11 PM |
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The BMW 'shop' is chugging along nicely! Might even make my money back this time! 
This is as far as I've got with the bike-breaking... a mix of rounded bolts and a lack of know-how is preventing the separation of the forks,
frame and swing-arm! Will just have to get the grinder and the big-hammer out!
Probably going to go full-circle and look for another RSV-R engine, but am in no rush to decide on the power-plant. Plenty of other 'stuff'
to be getting on with in the meantime!
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 22/11/10 at 06:20 PM |
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Not been a lot happening... the arrival of the Procomp kind of took my attention (and pennies) away!
Gave me lots of time to think though and the phrase that kept coming to the fore was KEEP IT SIMPLE AND CHEAP! No shaft drives, no reverse boxes...
just an offset bike engine, a normal chain drive and a great big fat rear tyre (300 or bigger... for no other reason than it looks  ).
And despite good advice to the contrary earlier in the thread, I'm going to go for a 'hard-tail' (no swingarm / shock). Firstly, I
don't have the skills to engineer a swingarm and pivot that won't twist like Chubby Checker. Also, the existing chassis lends itself
nicely to a wide-tyred hard-tail with minimal mods. I appreciate it might be a bit skippy over the bumps, but it's a toy and will only get used
once in every second blue-moon! I noticed a few posts questioning whether a hard-tail would be ok for MSVA, and I've checked with VOSA... no
problemo!
The car only came with the offside front suspension (inboard). Again, too costly and complicated to try and replicate it for the other side, so will
plump for some standard locost style wishbones with 'normal' suspension. Not going to start on these until I know the finished length of
the trike as this will influence the track dimension.
It's Evolution Baby!
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T66
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| posted on 23/11/10 at 06:35 PM |
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Ive just noticed your thread Scott.......
Good luck with the madness, its even more "different" than my little Fiat.
Always remember - "Different is good"
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tony-devon
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| posted on 28/11/10 at 10:14 AM |
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hardtail will be fine, I build and ride them all the time, bikes and trikes, although my trikes are 2 at the back layout
just use a large car back wheel, far cheaper tyres, no worries about killing the tyre in a thousand miles or so as your only running on the centre of
it etc
make your own, or draw up and have an engineering company make the parts for you, to build your own rear hub to suit.
in years gone by when I have built bikes like this, I started off with a thick walled tube, or bored solid bar as the bearing sleeve, and two top hat
shaped parts, both bored to be a tight fit over the main tube, and with flanges to suit the wheel, and the other to suit the brake disc
having them moveable during the initial build means you can adjust positioning and offset etc, then I have just fully welded them in place
never had an issue
never heard of that 1.6 magic number, but this is really odd, I just went through the last 3 trikes I built, and do you know what??
they were near as dammit 1.6 ratio, not for any reason, other than they looked right.
I know its the wrong way round for your taste, but heres my current project, moved on a way from this pic, but not got any recent ones
heavy is good, heavy is reliable, and if it breaks, hit them with it
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The Venom Project
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| posted on 28/11/10 at 12:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
... as you've probably guessed, I have fallen at the first hurdle and have adopted another project!
I stumbled across a brand-spanking new Formula Rolon single-seater chassis and body that had found its way into the country as part of an engineering
study. The Engineering chap was finished with it, so I bought it for a very reasonable price.
It arrived last week and I've got to say I'm quite impressed by the build quality. I was worried that it might not be the best, but the
chassis welding, bodywork and components seem every bit as good as some of the european Formula cars I've had.
It did not come with an engine or gearbox, and the rear lends itself well towards grafting the back-end of a bike onto it to create a reverse trike
(and its easier to put through its test!).
It also has a big enough cockpit to take my lardy backside in relative comfort!
This is a pic of a built car...
This is (kind of) what I want to (try and) achieve...
[Edited on 18-7-10 by Fozzie]
God damn I like that Trike in Red, Get it done :-)
It's not that i'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.....
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Triton
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| posted on 7/2/11 at 05:24 PM |
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Any pics on yer trikerage yet Mr Scootz?
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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scootz
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 09:45 AM |
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Lol... it's still just a collection of parts at the mo - chassis... bodywork... engine... steering rack!
I'm trying to get the Procomp ready for the Spring before I get giong again.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Triton
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 02:52 PM |
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Okey doke, just looking for inspiration as I'm about the same with mine... I thought maybe if I saw how well others were getting on it would
give me a kick to get cracking, I don't feel so guilty now though....hahahaha
Bit out of touch with things but if you wanted to do a track day or 5 using a trike would it be with cars or bikes?
[Edited on 8/2/11 by Triton]
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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