carpy
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| posted on 14/2/08 at 11:46 PM |
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Engines - More power than R1?
Currently looking to buy a BEC - Probably MK Indy or MAC#1, but have a question about power output of certain bike engines.
Basically, one car I am looking at has a 2003 5PW Fuel injected R1 engine.
Now I know this is going to be quick in a <500kg car, but what would be the next rung up the ladder engine wise?
I've heard about the ZX10R but not sure if that's the same or better. Likewise the ZX12R?
What's the next step up from a 2003 5PW Fuel injected R1 engine? How much more powerful are they?
If I was to get a new car built, what would the difference be price wise between the R1 and the engines above that?
I know you can turbocharge the Hayabusa at Holeshot etc but really I'm talking about a drop in engine that's not had more than about £500
worth of fettling!
I'm thinking partly that I want to buy something that will be scary quick no matter how used to it I get, but also on the flipside want to
ensure I get something that hasn't has £4000 worth of tweaking done so can be relatively easily &* cheaply replaced / repaired should it
ever go wrong.
Thanks
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twybrow
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| posted on 14/2/08 at 11:53 PM |
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ZX12 seems a good step up. And if you are still bored, a turbo conversion can be bought off the shelf.
An R1 powered car would be bloody quick. And that too could have a turbo if you are feeling brave. It depends how much you want to spend!
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NigeEss
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| posted on 14/2/08 at 11:59 PM |
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If you have a decent budget then Hayabusa is the way to go.
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skodaman
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 12:21 AM |
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Get one with a car engine. It's bad enough not having a reverse gear but having to take the bonnet off to get to the kickstart is plain
ridiculous.
Skodaman
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 12:33 AM |
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All the late model 1000cc superbike engines put out around the same power,R1,ZX10R,GSXR 1000,FIREBLADE RR's,there is very little difference
between them all,in fact the point was proved again to me on saturday,when I was out with mad gaz and his GSXR1000 MK,in a straight drag I was giving
my 2007 zx10r 13000rpm in every gear,when I got to number 6,I looked in my mirror expecting there to be at least a bit of a gap,but he was right up
with me.
Even the zx12 and the busa's on track theres not much in it,only when you get over 90/100mph,will they start to pull a bit of a gap.
I would recommend the R1,a good all rounded,good gearing,to suit a bike engined car install,ie,you can use a standard lsd 3:62 diff.Followed by the
zx12,again well geared,a little more expensive than a R1,and weighs a bit more,but loads of grunt,to more than make up for it.
ZX10r,great little engine,but poor gearing for a BEC,very close 5th/6th,so either a 3:38,or 3:14 diff is required,add to this a LSD conversion,as
neither of these diffs come with one as standard,and it starts getting a very expensive option.
[Edited on 19/05/04 by PAUL FISHER]
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 12:57 AM |
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As above - i'd say pretty much all BEC's are scary quick and there isnt huge amounts between any of the engine options (just look at the
times in the RGB series between the front engined class A and class C (fireblade) runners - its not as much as you would expect for a 50bhp
increase).
If you can get used to a turbo'd BEC then you must be mad. Doubt you will get any quicker than that so that might be the way to go starting with
very low boost. Do you really need it though?? Go out in a decent BEC and then make up your mind
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welderman
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 06:13 AM |
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Hi mate,
You would have to spend a pretty good chunk of money to go a noticeable amount faster (Paul Fisher proves this in this post). You would also then have
to spend the exact same amount of money to replace it as you suggested.
The difference is not worth the expenditure. Especially if the car you are interested in is the car with the '03 R1!
There are a couple of upgrades to that engine in a car, in case it is standard! - Fit a decent air filter, a good exhaust, maybe an aftermarket back
box, and lastly, fit a Power Commander and set it up to suit the above.
You won't be disappointed, honest!
Another thing to mention is, buying a car already built is probably the easiest and quickest way to get on the road for a budget. Building a car
yourself will ensure you get it exactly how you want but will cost quite a bit more, and having a car built for you will cost even more again. I wish
I'd bought one 2nd hand, but maybe with only one owner etc...
ATB
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smart51
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 07:59 AM |
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No one has mentioned the ZZR1400 engine. 190 BHP stock and easily 200 with a straight through silencer. I think that this is the mist powerful bike
engine, turbo conversions apart of course.
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stuart_g
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 08:54 AM |
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you could always stick with the R1 but go for an 04-06 engine, these are a different engine to the earlier models and more powerful at 180bhp in the
bike compared to 150bhp for the 2003.
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eznfrank
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 09:07 AM |
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I was sold on the ZX12 by the hellfire guys and imp_paul, both of whom I have no doubt will be along shortly to "sell" the benefits of
this motor to you.
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hobbsy
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 09:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stuart_g
you could always stick with the R1 but go for an 04-06 engine, these are a different engine to the earlier models and more powerful at 180bhp in the
bike compared to 150bhp for the 2003.
But apparently the gearing isn't quite as good for use in a car (for road use) and there is a actually less mid range torque, all the extra
power is at the top end (revs further).
So for a very track focused or race car no problem - want to use it on the road as well a fair bit then the '03 R1 is still a good bet.
(I'm not biased of course!)
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 09:58 AM |
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r1 carb r1 03 or zx12r
ta chris
paul has just made a very valid point about his new zx10r engine
I pitched my carb r1 against an r1 06
nothing in it
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TimC
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 10:29 AM |
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'03 R1 is a great engine. I'd have had one if I was a bit more confident in my wiring ability. I opted for the more rudimentary carb
version of the same engine instead,
The Powercommander does have serious benefits so if the car has one fitted that's a real bonus.
Have you been out in the car yet? I think it will feel somewhat quicker than the 1400 K-Series Caterham you hired.
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Kriss
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 11:19 AM |
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I would do as most say - go out in a BEC and then make your mind up as to what you want power wise.
I went out in an R1 Carb (zxrlocosts) and was amazed how quick it was and instantly wanted one. When he detailed the R1 fi 2003 is an even better
engine I started to get worried. I thought my Clio V6 was fast, but honestly these are different leauge - supercar fast (abelit top end)
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swalf3
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 11:51 AM |
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more power than R1
The most important thing with a BEC is to get the weight down to as little as possible.This not only improves the power/weight ratio but most
importantly makes the car soooo nimble to drive.Unfortunately this weight saving process can be very expensive unless you do the work yourself or know
someone who can help.Collect parts from ex race cars,wheels ,brakes, steering and don't put anything on the car unless it is absolutely
necessary and find the smallest and lightest of the part you need. swalf3
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Hellfire
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 12:31 PM |
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Carpy, whereabouts do you live? If you can get down to MK on a Saturday morning, there's usually a few BEC guys who'd be quite happy to
take you out for a spin. 
Phil
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timcullen
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| posted on 15/2/08 at 01:04 PM |
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Great thread this! ZXRlocost is doing an R1 conversion for me starting this month!! Question of weight, with the Xflow my car weighs in at 490 kilos
what will I get this down to with the R1 engine?
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imp paul
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| posted on 16/2/08 at 10:03 AM |
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best bang for your bucks as said time and time again zx12r from mild to mad and lots of grunt and its a tuff old lad and also known as a busa basha
lol its all down to pennys but lots of lads race with zx12r engines and seem very happy with them but its up to you 1 last thing all tuneing stuff is
very big for this engine see MB CUSTOMS he is your boy for big power hows 550bhp do ya lol good luck with your build all the best paul
[Edited on 16/2/08 by imp paul]
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