I know that it's been said many times that a Blackbird (and Hyabusa) will require dry-sumping if you are going to put it on a track - especially with sticky tyres.
What hasn't been clear is - have the folks who have had trouble with their Blackbirds not being dry-sumped been running with standard sumps or shortened sumps?
I've got a standard sump (will be fitting a baffle plate) and will be wanting to do the occasional track day/hillclimb etc and do not really want/need the expense of a dry sump system.

I can see why people do use shortened sumps - in my car the sump has 100mm clearance from the ground and the engine protrudes through the bonnet - not short these bike motors.

Dave

Hi i had a blacbirf indy,

first i tried the mistral shortend sump this was worse than the std sump,

i then had the std sump slightly shortend fitted a baffle plate and a accusump,

I did a few track days with this and all was ok, keep an eye on oil pressure on the track as you go round for a few laps and if you find a particular coner gives you lower oil pressure due to surging just back off a littlke on them corners hardf i know but saves the engine,

i had also on the sump welded in a couple of trap door plates etc and this seem to maintain oil pressure much better,

Failing that strip the engine remove the balancer shaft plug up the hole and this improves oil flow, as the reason this causes problems i think 1-3 share the same oil gallery,

this then improves oil flow,

you should be ok on occassinal track day then i also ran about 10% extra oil on the dip stick,

cheers and good luck

[Edited on 14/5/10 by INDY BIRD]

I am not an expert on the Blackbird - nor on anything else come to think of it - however I was at Castle Combe a couple of years back when a some chap who had a very nicely built F27 with a Blackbird, with about 20 road miles on it after SVA put it on the track. He did his out lap, then on the second lap it came past me sounding 'sick', then on the next lap as he approached where I was just past Tower there was a pop followed by a huge ball of flame and that was it. When I saw him in the paddock - he was nearly in tears - I had a chat and he showed me where no.3 piston and rod had exited the block!! I later asked around and apparently this is where the oil starvation affects them the most! HTH

Cheers, Nick

Hi there,

I have no direct experience, but admire your Locost optimism. I suspect you know the answer to this question.

There is an "old" bec list, which might help. http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/bike-engined-cars/

Or Dan Bromilow seems to have looked into this in detail (Brommers on here, or http://www.danstuff.info/).

You could do the Accusump thing, which is much cheaper than a full dry sump and gives some of the benefits.

Matt

Somebody call? You might get away with a full depth sump if you fit a baffle plate. For road use you probably will get away with it, but for track and hill-climb use it'll be, at best, marginal.

Blackbird engines are great, if you keep the oil pressure high. As soon as it dips, number 3 big end goes, as it shares its oil supply with the top counter-rotating balancing shaft, and the whole engine goes bang. A dry sump kit is about a grand, and when I bought my last 'bird engine it was just under a grand. I blew up two 'bird engines before going DS which solved the problem. So my costs were:

3 bird engines - 3500
1 dry sump kit - 1000

Total cost 4500. If I'd bought a dry sump kit from the outset, I'd have saved myself 2 grand...

Oh, and Nova do the best (and I think only) dry sump kit but it's a good 'un.

Thanks for the information.
Looks like I'll be needing a dry sump if I want to put the car on a track.
I will be putting a baffle plate in, and may yet add an accusump for road/fastroad use.
I guess I was being optimistic about using a standard sump, not requiring dry sumping

Thanks
David

I recently installed an accusump to my Blackbird (the whole kit including hoses, connectors etc cost around £500 from AB) I'm hoping it'll be up to the job. I did feel a bit sick when I discovered Caterham were now selling off some blackbird bits very cheaply, including dry sump pans and tanks (would cost about £375+vat + a pump and hosing). I don't know much about them but I'd certainly have looked into it had I known before I'd bought my Accusump.

wow seems expensive for accusump,

mine was around £300 all in was manual vale though.

it was actually £556 inc. was for the 6 pint EPC valve, all the braided hosing / connectors, mounting brackets etc etc. On a Blackbird you also need to have a custom connector welded up. For some reason the thread into the engine is fairly unusual.

Actually, while we're on this subject, has anyone done the balance shaft removal thing? how tricky is it and how much more vibration do you end up with? Any other implications?