n54
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 07:51 AM |
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Where should I start
Hi all,
I'm a new member not just to this forum but to the car building business. I have absolutely no clue when it comes to building a car. My only
weapon is my passion to the subject. I was wondering where you guys first started, how did you build your first cars, what resources did you use. My
plan is to build a rear/mid engined car with a big V8 so if anyone of has a good chassis design that I could use, that would be great. Mind you I know
nothing of welding techniques but I could learn fast. I'm an absolute noob that begs for your help.
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eznfrank
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 07:59 AM |
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welcome to the forum mate. I've not actually got any suggestions for the above, but if you have heaps of passion and the help of this forum them
i'm sure you'll be reet. Not that i have anything against v8's but any particular reason? Soundtrack?
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jabbahutt
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 08:00 AM |
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Welcome to the mad house. I can't comment on your questions as I built a kit which involved no design apart from asthetics and involved no
welding.
I dare say someone will be along with experience of building their own design to assist.
Any reason why you're not considering building a kit rather than from scratch?
Any way god luck with whatever to attempt.
Cheers
Nigel
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zetec
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 09:13 AM |
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Welcome. I would be tempted to go and visit a few manufactures. I had loads of ideas about what I wanted when I started and only by talking to people
and looking at other self builds did I get an idea of what I really wanted. Budget and time will also play a big part. If you dont have the knowledge
and time to build your own chassis look at what is on the market ready built chassis. In lots of cases they will work out to be a better start to your
project and will cut down your build time a great deal.
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n54
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 10:05 AM |
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Wow never expected so much replies in such short time. Thanks guys.
eznfrank:
Why not? I'm a real speed addict and putting a V8 in a small car I think would give me the thrill I want. Also I'm currently in the
middle-east, American V8's are dominant here and I can get my hands on one for a really good price.
Nigel:
Thanks mate. The real problem with kits is that we have none where I live and it would cost lots of money to get them shipped here. We have metal,
tools and big engines so why not build my own.
zetec:
If only I could. There are no car manufacturers here. My only resource is the internet.
I am just looking for a simple chassis guideline, a drawing with measurements for rear engined car. As I said, I am really passionate about the
project I would build the chassis a 100times to just get it right. but I must start with something that actually works. My budget is around 2000
pounds but I can pay more as I go on with the project. Car parts are cheap here so no worries. Thanks again guys.
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Peteff
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 10:18 AM |
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Welcome n54
Put your location in your profile and anyone near you will be able to see it, there may be a helping hand within shouting distance. Even a country may
be of some help.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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splitrivet
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 10:23 AM |
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Why not go Haynes roadster with a V8 for starters, most of the hard stuff re design is done for you, then go scratch built as your second car. By then
your welding and more importantly problem solving skills will be better honed.
We all have dreams but sometimes have to take the long route to achieve them, otherwise thats all they will ever be, dreams.
Welcome by the way.
Cheers,
Bob
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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mikeb
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 11:23 AM |
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I thought about a rear engine scratch desing and build as my first proper build project. Even through I (probably) have the engineering brain and
training to do the design I eventually thought it wise to build to proven design first so I opted for the haynes roadster.
As stated above this has honed my welding skills and given me a real appreciation of all the elements involved. I now understand the limitation of my
skill and available tools so know what I coudl tackle in the future.
Hence my advice would be, build to a known design like the haynes first, shove a v8 in it if thats your thing. Then move on and work on your own
design on the background, learn a CAD package to realise your design before comitting to metal, Could save an awful lot of frustration!
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Ivan
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 11:35 AM |
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Hi and welcome - I've nothing against V8's as my avatar will show, however you realyshould try out a BEC & CEC Locost before
finalising your plans - you might find that either will suit your desire for shocking performance at a lot less cost than a V8 heavyweight.
Never lose sight of the fact that excess weight in a car is a big downer when it comes to overall performance - i.e. acceleration and handling and V8s
with the sort of power that will outperform a Hyabusa powered Locost weigh and cost plenty.
Also - going for a proven design saves years of design, fettling and testing time to get a car with equal performance.
Have a look at this great thread to get some idea of what's involved in a one off.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=43112&page=&contribmessage=none
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n54
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 11:37 AM |
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This is exactly my plan. To start with something designed and pretested and then move on to my own. My problem is finding the plans an drawings for
that. where can I find the drawings for a Haynes chassis? and would it be able to hold a big V8 in the back ? (my best would be a wide coupe chassis
similar to Ultima GTR's)
Thanks mikeb, splitrivet, Peteff and all of you guys.
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n54
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 11:52 AM |
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Thanks Ivan, didn't see your post there.
I completely agree with you. I myself am more of a compressed air than a naturally aspirated engine guy. I love smaller engines, but where I live, a
V8 is probably much cheaper and easier to get than a bike engine or a turbo-charged one. I am currently looking for a proven design if you have any
candidates please share.
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James
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 02:45 PM |
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This is the Haynes book "Build Your Own Sports Car: On a budget"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Your-Own-Sports-Car/dp/1844253910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227537737&sr=1-1
Which is the 3rd version of the original Locost book.
It's obviously a front engine, rear wheel drive car.
I started out on this hobby as a complete newb (many would say still am!) and it took me 4 years to build from scratch with plenty of help from people
here.
To do a mid-engine car and bodywork would take many, many times longer IMO.
I would start with a Seven and move on to mid-engine from there later.
Hope that helps,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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mr henderson
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 03:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by n54
Thanks Ivan, didn't see your post there.
I completely agree with you. I myself am more of a compressed air than a naturally aspirated engine guy. I love smaller engines, but where I live, a
V8 is probably much cheaper and easier to get than a bike engine or a turbo-charged one. I am currently looking for a proven design if you have any
candidates please share.
I dare say the engine will be easier and cheaper, but what about the gearbox? and the other parts required, such as driveshafts, uprights, sutiable
brakes etc.
If these things are not available locally (you still haven't entered your location on your profile!!!) then you are going to have to do quite a
bit of importing anyway, so much so that the engine will only be a small part of the overall problem.
John
Edited to add- welcome to the forum, BTW, and have you considered going front engined with whatever suitable donors there might be available? That way
most of the running gear (especially gearbox) problems don't arise
[Edited on 24/11/08 by mr henderson]
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n54
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 03:52 PM |
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James, thanks for the book link. 4 years is a long time, I'm thinking of a much shorter time but whatever it takes as long as I get it done.
John, many car parts are available here and I'll certainly look into them once I get to that stage. Right now I am just looking to build a
rear/mid engine chassis that is capable of holding a V8. Once I've done that, I'll get whatever's available here. As this is my
first build my only concern is to get the car running.
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 04:22 PM |
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Just to add my 2 cents, I have built and worked on many production and pure race cars (Datsun, Ford, McLaren F500, and Can Am). I have been 5 years
off and on building a Locost with a Toyota 4AGE. Big American V8's break a lot of parts (427 Corvette 4 engines 40,000 miles). Have a look at
the original Locost or Haynes roadster, I am sure there are a few wrecked V8 Land Rovers in Rhiad, good engine and light, go very well in a Locost.
Your other problem is distance from UK parts as is mine, give it some thought, when it takes 3 months to get a needed part, slows thing down.
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n54
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| posted on 24/11/08 at 04:37 PM |
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As I said before, I'm a complete noob. I think I can manage to find a Land Rover's V8 here and will look into it more. As you said
distance is the biggest problem and for that reason I'm looking to fabricate my own specs. My ultimate dream is to build something similar to
the Ultima GTR (different styling though). Thanks.
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Doug68
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| posted on 25/11/08 at 04:49 AM |
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Hi n54,
You'll find more relevent information on joining a V8 and trans together over on www.gt40s.com there are people doing scratch built GT40's
but no one anywhere is going to give you plans for a chassis.
There's thing like this http://www.kitcarplans.com you can look at but most of this sort of thing appear to br crap in reality. Try contacting
Kaspa on this forum or GT40's he may be able to sell you what something interesting and his thing looks well designed to me.
Other than that use Amazon to buy every book you can on the subject and read them all repeatedly.
[Edited on 25/11/08 by Doug68]
Doug. 1TG
Sports Car Builders WA
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mr henderson
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| posted on 25/11/08 at 10:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by n54
John, many car parts are available here and I'll certainly look into them once I get to that stage. Right now I am just looking to build a
rear/mid engine chassis that is capable of holding a V8. Once I've done that, I'll get whatever's available here.
But surely you are at that stage now. You wouldn't build a car and then worry about the gearbox etc, would you?
Personally I think the chances of your finding useful plans for your particular project to be quite low.
I reckon your best bet, if you are set on this style of project, would be to first do plenty of reading, and you should include kb58 (a member
here)'s book on how to design and build your own mid engined sports car. Then, if it was me, I would get together all the required parts,
engine, gearbox, suspension etc, and design and build the chassis around them
John
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n54
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| posted on 25/11/08 at 11:11 AM |
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Doug, thanks for the sites I'm currently browsing them.
John, perhaps you're right. I better stick to a safe plan than to an imaginary one. But I always thought that I could find some CAD drawings
that I could use for my dream design. The problem is that I want to get my hands dirty and then do my share of research. Well, better safe than
sorry.
Cheers mates.
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v8kid
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| posted on 25/11/08 at 04:39 PM |
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Hi n54 welcome to the madhouse.
You should be able to pick up a renault UN1 gearbox they were produced under licence I think by Jeep in the Eagle? Very strong and very adaptable and
dead easy to rebuild and swap ratios. Someone will correct me if I am wrong.
My inspiration was the Radical SR8 and there are plenty of pictures of the chassis on Google images if you search.
As it turned out it was easier for me to use a Sylva Riot chassis as everything fitted - but - with that sort of power I found that everything else,
brakes, suspension, uprights were unable to cope with the torque and needed beefed up.
In retrospect a scratch build would be easier.
With respect to weight, power and performance I managed fairly easily to better my inspiration and your access to powerfull engines should be better
than here.
It has been fantastic fun for me and I never regretted it for a second even when my budget was blown out of the water which, by the way, was quite a
bit more than 2k.
Cheers
David
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Kaspa
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| posted on 2/12/08 at 05:27 AM |
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John Have sent you a Pm
cheers Kaspa
understeer= when you hit the wall front first
oversteer=when you hit the wall back first
HP= how fast you hit the wall
Torque= how far the wall moves when you hit it
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Theshed
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| posted on 3/12/08 at 09:40 PM |
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I made the mistake of getting my hands dirty (well rather posh epoxy in my case) before the design work was half complete. Whilst you can design on
the hoof it is not the easiest way.
If you must get building why not take out your frustrations on a big build table - nice welding lessons there.
Then you can make or buy a seat and a steering wheel and make brrm brrm noises whilst planning.
If you want v8 midi then unless you can afford a porsche gearbox and can invert it I think the best roadcar transmission for a midi is the Audi. What
is better is that they make a v8.
If you like the ultima keep an eye out for a prosports chassis. often quite cheap if a bit old and bent.
have fun
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kb58
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| posted on 3/12/08 at 11:05 PM |
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n54, I sense a great deal of enthusiasm in your writing, which is a good thing, but also puts you at great peril. Right now it's very easy to go
nuts and jump into building but please refrain from doing so. Any project that's only half thought-through will lead to disappointment and
possibly never be finished.
I'd spend money buying all the books you can on sports car and suspension design because your budget doesn't allow buying a finished
mid-engine car - you're going to have to build it from scratch
I have a book about mid-engine car design and construction, plus a big list of other books to seriously consider reading before you start,
http://www.kimini.com/Reference/index.html
Your situation reminds me of a teenager who's walking through the red-light district for the first time. Don't run into the first bordello
you see or bad things can happen! Take your time and think through the entire undertaking... the car project I mean.
[Edited on 12/3/08 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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