bassett
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 07:09 PM |
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BEC clutch issue?
Hi just had my r1's (2003 5pw) gearbox rebuilt but on refitting it I'm having an issue. Reconnecting the gear paddles it slipped into
gear. Tried to get it back into neutral but the box bever shifted well when not running so we left it. Everything else went back together and and we
started it on axle stands but the clutch wasn't engaging fully and it's trying to start in gear. The clutch is definitely moving with the
pedal and I'm pretty sure the lever is in the same location with the cable adjusted as before. Any ideas on what we might be overlooking? With a
kit car does it matter where the clutch lever is positioned as it isn't on the factory marks?
Adam
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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CosKev3
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 07:17 PM |
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So with the clutch pedal depressed the engine is still driving the wheels?
Have you replaced anything in the clutch pack?
If not it could be the clutch plates are stuck together, common on bike engines that have stood for a while, the oil goes thick and tacky and sticks
plates together.
A lot of people say with bikes just ride it and they will free off.
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bassett
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 07:44 PM |
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Yes clutch down and the wheels still turned. The mechanic replaced most the cogs, selectors and seals but nothing on the clutch side as far as
I'm aware. Fingers crossed it is sticky plates as it would have sat fairly dry for about 2 months in total. We've taken a tiny bit of
extra slack out of the clutch cable and will try again at the weekend, thanks
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 21/4/15 at 08:00 PM |
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Put it on the ground, place it in gear, operate the clutch chances are you will be able to push the car, up on axle stands I would expect the driven
wheels to rotate a little even with the clutch depressed if it's in gear.
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 22/4/15 at 07:39 AM |
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Senior moment, but, *IF* the 5PW is similar to the 5VY...
Fitting the 5VY clutch cover requires that you end up with the operating lever in the right place. The mechanism is on a scroll that you engage as you
push the cover home, it needs to be on the right part of the scroll otherwise the lever ends up in the wrong orientation. There are two markings that
align when play is taken up.
This is on my car was a real pain, which is why it sticks in my mind, due to a chassis rail across the clutch cover.
If the scroll isn't meshed correctly, the clutch rod would hit the casing one way, or fall into a void the other.
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bassett
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| posted on 22/4/15 at 10:25 AM |
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This is where I was a bit concerned but the pedal is definitely operating the lever when looking through the oil filler hole and I think the alignment
marks only really apply to the bike setup but I'd be interested to be proven wrong. We currently don't have our marks aligned as this
doesn't allow the slack in the cable to be taken up so we've taken the e clip off the lever and rotated it round.
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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computid
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| posted on 22/4/15 at 12:10 PM |
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If you haven't got the sprung 2 part lever on the casing in the right place the lever will still move a bit but won't fully disengage the
clutch.
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bassett
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| posted on 22/4/15 at 02:32 PM |
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The lever that houses the clutch cable end is held on the splined shaft that engages the clutch so surely the lever could be moved around and
rotated?
[Edited on 22/4/15 by bassett]
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 22/4/15 at 07:50 PM |
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If I'm understanding this correctly, you've changed the orientation of the lever arm to the actuating scroll, meaning that the Yamaha
alignment marks aren't meaning a great deal.
If this is the case, this is not a good idea.
Reset, get it back to where it was, otherwise you won't get that actuating rod in the right place. The clutch rod may well come through the
casing (yes, I've seen it happen) one way, or not disengage the clutch the other.
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bassett
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 10:09 AM |
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Thanks for the info. Had another try yesterday and didn't help the battery wasn't charged so we managed to get a few other bits sorted. By
the time it was charged we gave it a go but the clutch isn't engaging fully so it does have some light drag and tries and spin the wheels unless
the handbrakes on (car is on axle stands). So its time to get the clutch casing off and back to basics and reset it and make sure there isn't
any other issues.
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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markyb
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 11:16 AM |
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In the past I found that lining up the clutch arm to the marker on the casing had to be exact to get it working properly. It took me numerous attempts
to get it right when I was putting in my new clutch plate springs
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bassett
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 08:23 PM |
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It's just strange as I remember having a lot more thread on the clutch cable than when it was aligned as per the markings. When should the
markings be aligned as there is some slack in the lever should it be aligned when nearest the clutch cable or furthest away?
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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markyb
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| posted on 28/4/15 at 07:10 AM |
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If I get a chance this evening will try and get a photo of how my clutch lever sits. I found it was a real PITA getting it aligned properly - if I was
one cog out the clutch wouldn't work properly so had to keep persevering until it was right.
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markyb
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| posted on 29/4/15 at 03:54 PM |
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I tried getting a picture last night but it is impossible to get a good shot from any angle due to the chassis support rails
Sorry
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bassett
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| posted on 29/4/15 at 08:20 PM |
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No problem.
We spent another 2 hours tonight basically pulling our hair out, i just wish id taken a few more photos before taking the engine out as atleast
we'd have a reference point.
So tonight we took the clutch case of, checked the pull rod was aligned with the release shaft and then rotated the clutch arm to check it was pulling
on the pull rod which it was (worth noting it has a barnet clutch spring which makes this job easier). With the case back on below is a picture of our
setup which as you can see there is far too much slack when at correct alignment and half the pedal movement is used to pull the slack up with the
remainder then barely engaging the clutch. When the arm is rotated to remove the slack (but not at correct alignment) you can definitely feel that the
clutch is being pulled and if anything over pulled when the clutch cable is adjusted at its maximum so we wound it back from this position so the
pedal hits the clutch stop.
Anyway we got the back end off the floor and tried starting and after 3 attempts nothing.
So....... any other ideas?
Does anyone else have trouble getting the car into neutral when the engines not running? are there any tricks?
Can a bec be bumped started? as we live on a hill this is a viable option - but god knows how we would push it back up if it didnt work!
And finally i hadnt noticed this before as it usually started fairly well but when engaging the starter motor it sounds like it speeds up with the
throttle down is this normal or just because the pistons can suck air in easier?
Thanks
Adam
[Edited on 29/4/15 by bassett]
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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CosKev3
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| posted on 29/4/15 at 08:34 PM |
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Yeah that's normal for engine to spin over faster with throttles open.
Have you checked your getting a spark?
Is fuel pump priming?
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bassett
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| posted on 29/4/15 at 09:07 PM |
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Hi, Yes fuel pump is definitely priming, I ran the ecu diagnostics, checked the codes which at least found the inlet air sensor wasnt connected last
week and checked every injector was firing with the test function which they were. Didnt check the spark but this is on the list with an extra long
session of the battery on charge but thats about it.
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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CosKev3
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| posted on 30/4/15 at 07:56 AM |
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Not sure if the injector test tells you they are actually firing fuel into the cylinder?
Whip a plug out and see if its either wet with petrol, so would suggest you have no spark, or if plugs are bone dry your getting no fuel delivery.
Sure I read somewhere the injectors are prone for sticking when not used for a while, but would hope your injector test would have shown that up.
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bassett
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| posted on 3/5/15 at 03:47 PM |
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Finally had some good news yesterday in both getting the car to start and getting it into neutral
With a battery charged to 14v rather than 13.5v it had a much better starter response but still didnt fire till some easy start was sprayed down the
TB's although it was stuck in gear and head scratching recommenced.
We did notice that while running that the clutch was definitely disengaging drive as the wheels would go from spinning to non spinning when engaged so
next thought was to look at the gear cable. We managed to get 4 gears by hand operating the gear lever arm but could never get neutral so we assumed
we had 3rd - 6th. We adjusted the gear lever arm and cable so that we could at least get the same 4 gears using the paddles. Got the engine started
again now we could get 2nd, neutral and first quite easily. Not sure why it seemed so difficult other than the new gears might be really tight?
Feeling quite chuffed that nothing more serious was wrong we decided to have a quick shake down drive so we got everything else back in place like
lose hoses, cables, wiring etc. The engine took a few attempts to start but finally did and then we set off to go and now the engine warning light
came on with fault code 11 - camshaft sensor - GREAT!
whilst checking it over we noticed the wire going into the connector had broken which needs a more skilled pair of hands for the fiddly repair.
Hopefully it is nothing more serious and might also explain some of the starting issues we've been having?
Thanks all again for the advice as it really does help to bounce thoughts around.
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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CosKev3
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| posted on 3/5/15 at 05:25 PM |
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Great news!
If the cam sensor is what tells the ECU the engine is turning over then yeah it will cause starting issues as the ECU will not know the engine is
turning over!
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