Johnmor
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| posted on 15/2/20 at 10:53 PM |
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Sump below chassis
Hi all
Just did trial fit of the v8 in the chassis, so far so good
The base of the sump sits around 50 mm below the chasis, how does this compare to others,
My previous viento with the Alfa engine was around 40mm,
Is 50mtoo much??
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Angel Acevedo
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 posted on 16/2/20 at 02:19 AM |
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50 mm is about 40% of my ground clearance.
In my car Not Acceptable.
Aalso, sump clearance may not be the lowest point of your engine/transmission combo.
If close enough to wheel axis it may not be a problem though.
I would not risk it.
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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Johnmor
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 07:50 AM |
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Thanks for the reply
The sump on the V8 is by far the lowest part of the transmission but its shape means this is about 600mm behind the front wheel axis so I may try to
raise it a bit, but it's a tight fit under the bonnet, may need to look at a different carb set up to gain some space.
Think the Weber 500 with manifold could give me another 25mm but it's an expensive way to gain 25mm
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Bladerunner
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 08:26 AM |
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Sump
Is there a kit for your engine that you could get to dry sump it. That way everything stays as is just reduce the depth of the sump.
Adventure before Dementia
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 08:45 AM |
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I believe the Rover V8 used a variety of sumps over the years? Might be possible to get one that isn’t as deep, possibly a P6? Obviously depending on
which engine you are using.Might also be able to cut a section out and install baffles and extra capacity?
Rodsnsods have more info
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Johnmor
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 08:53 AM |
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The dry sump option would certainly reduce the depth , although it's more expensive than the Weber 500 option
Also you need to then look at the fly wheel as is 320mm diameter means it's only about 20mm above the sump base,
A smaller fly wheel get real complicated , starter motor etc
In my last viento I ended up with around 120mm ground clearance from the chassis and my sump was closer to the wheel line so didn't cause major
issues as long as you were aware of speed bumps etc
I'll look at raising the engine as much as I can without hitting the bonnet, I have plenty of room in the transmission tunnel I'll see
how things go
Are most engine fits bringing the sump above the chassis??
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big_wasa
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 08:55 AM |
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With a standard sized car I aim for a max of 25mm.
I have been wondering if the Viento sits higher ?
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Johnmor
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 10:33 AM |
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The viento is wide and can stand a little taller without looking silly
With suspension adjustment and tyre options I can raise and lower the car a bit
I'm looking at 16" wheels with 50 series tyres ( softer ride) giving the rears a large diameter of 632mm , this will raise the chassis a
bit although it may affect the spring loading
If I can get the sump to around 25mm below I think it will be ok
The Joy's of building your own car !!
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 10:37 AM |
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Personally in won’t want a sump more than 40mm below chassis rail but it does depend on the chassis height to road min ideally is 100 mm clearance
anything below that may cause a few headaches but lots of people run 75mm clearance
[Edited on 16/2/20 by ian locostzx9rc2]
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Angel Acevedo
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 02:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
The dry sump option would certainly reduce the depth , although it's more expensive than the Weber 500 option
Also you need to then look at the fly wheel as is 320mm diameter means it's only about 20mm above the sump base,
A smaller fly wheel get real complicated , starter motor etc
In my last viento I ended up with around 120mm ground clearance from the chassis and my sump was closer to the wheel line so didn't cause major
issues as long as you were aware of speed bumps etc
I'll look at raising the engine as much as I can without hitting the bonnet, I have plenty of room in the transmission tunnel I'll see
how things go
Are most engine fits bringing the sump above the chassis??
I think you´d need to use several actions.
- Modify sump, There´s 20 mm to be gained. Or even 25 mm
I don´t think that´s enough to reduce too much oil capacity.
- Install Skid plate (there you loose clearance but increase protection against bumps.
- Increase Ride Height.
The sum of the three may be enough for the protrusion not to be a problem.
HTH
quote:
Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
Personally in won’t want a sump more than 40mm below chassis rail but it does depend on the chassis height to road min ideally is 100 mm clearance
anything below that may cause a few headaches but lots of people run 75mm clearance
[Edited on 16/2/20 by ian locostzx9rc2]
+1
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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CosKev3
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 06:30 PM |
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Modify the sump and oil pick pick up, and add on a wing or wings to the side of sump to increase capacity
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steve m
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| posted on 16/2/20 at 06:40 PM |
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Its irrelevant, of how far below the chassis a sump or gearbox or anything else is,
But what is relevant is how much gap between the lowest part is to the ground
My old 7, had 100mm (4" gap between the ground and the gearbox bellhousing, and that used to take chunks out of speed humps if I was traveling
a tad to fast
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 17/2/20 at 12:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Modify the sump and oil pick pick up, and add on a wing or wings to the side of sump to increase capacity
This.
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tilly819
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| posted on 17/2/20 at 03:53 PM |
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Mine was 25mm below when I built it...
Put a hole in it one day far from home...
I have a sump guard now...
50mm sounds like trouble assuming you have the standard-ish 100-150mm ground clearance.
Tilly
F20C Haynes roadster 440 BHP/Tonne www.youtube.com/handmadeextreme
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Johnmor
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| posted on 17/2/20 at 07:17 PM |
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Thanks for the responses
I agree 50mm is too much, to compound issues the standard SU carbs are around 30mm too high for the bonnet, so I need to lose around 75-80mm
I have found a pair of stromburg carbs that will release about 30mm, it also appears the range rover sump would give around 10mm
So still 40mm short, could move the engine back around 40mm that may give another 10mm
OR bite the bullet and spend £1000 on Weber 500 and manifold, give around 60mm but 25hp!!
I can see the £££££ mounting up
However I'm in no great hurry so I'll keep working on it and find a solution.
Thanks for the ideas
John
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big_wasa
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| posted on 17/2/20 at 07:33 PM |
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I thought 17”s where the norm on a Viento.
I’ve got 16”s with mine but thought they might be a bit weedy
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Johnmor
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| posted on 17/2/20 at 07:54 PM |
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I had 17" before on my last Viento, but 45 series tyres with the low weight of the car made for a hard ride,
I have a new set of 16" i bought with the kit so ill go for 50 series tyre , diameter is the same so ride height not compromised
I have a set of 20" of my Mercedes GL with 275/50s that would add some ground clearence
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big_wasa
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| posted on 17/2/20 at 08:03 PM |
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Yeh I’ve got 18”s on my Renault and it’s gocart hard.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/2/20 at 12:05 PM |
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Personally I would not want the sump to be the lowest part no matter how much it stuck out, its only a matter of time before the inevitable happened.
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Johnmor
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| posted on 19/2/20 at 09:56 AM |
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Yeahh the sump is a vunerable part but engine design always puts it at the lowest point (for good reason), large capacity engine are always a
challenge although the 45 degree v8 is better than most and shorter than almost any v8-straight 6-v6 etc
My Alfa v6 with fuel injection fitted under the bonnet (just) but the sump was 40mm below
The viento is wide but not that much taller than the Velocity , ill keep finding solutions but will almost certainly have a sump guard as i cant see
how im gonna get it above the chassis without a dry sump and thats big money
imsure many on this site have done it so a solution is there, just got to make it work
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JonBowden
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| posted on 19/2/20 at 01:31 PM |
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I know that you have space issues at the top of the engine but how about raising the engine by say 20mm.
To help compensate for this, you might be able to move it back a wee bit (to put it under a higher part of the bonnet.
Then you might be able to make a fuel injection system fit (?) or a big hole for the carb(s).
I used to have a Rover V8 engine with an australian market EFI plenum. This plenum was much lower than the Vitesse one
The standard oil filler is quite high but my Australian one had a lower filler - or it could be machined
Jon
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Johnmor
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| posted on 19/2/20 at 02:33 PM |
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Hi Jon
Yeahh id like to raise the engine but the current SU carb set up is already 30mm to high so I need to reconsider the carbs or possibly FI but i dont
want to complicate things too much.
Its a pity cause the SU carbs are pretty good and just been reconditioned (previous owner) they were on the engine when i got it
Its a goldseal reconditioned engine so although 35 years old its only done around 2000 miles.
It maybe a combination of things that provides the space, incuding a shorter sump and differnt carbs etc
ill keep on it
john
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JonBowden
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| posted on 19/2/20 at 05:54 PM |
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Sounds like the opportunity for a big bulge / scoop.
Out of interest, I see from your photos that you had a rather nice looking Alfa engine in your other car.
Why a Rover engine this time?
Jon
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Johnmor
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| posted on 19/2/20 at 06:38 PM |
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Hi Jon
I used an Alfa v6 previously as it was an engine I was familiar with and always loved the sound of the v6, the issue was making a FWD engine fit a
RWD car, all the Alfa with rear wheel drive use a different system with the gearbox in the back axle, not suitable for a kit car.
So I had a conversion plate made and engineered a bell housing , mated it to a Ford gearbox, lots of work but was successful
However I bought the recent Viento part built and the engine came with the deal , I have always liked the V8 so I'm going to go with it, in
addition, the engineer chap who helped on the last project has retired and moved away so access to engineering machines is now limited
The v8 has less power (about 160hp alfa was 190) but it's great soundtrack and looks tidy under the bonnet, if I can squeeze it in
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